DMG-Mori customer service

[neurosis]

I'm curious if the customers who didn't get a call back communicated by email or phone?

Maybe they are having some technical difficulties getting messages, I've seen it happen all the time, including to me!!

I can't speak for everyone, but I've tried both in our case. 

Someone finally got back to me yesterday but only after I contacted two separate service reps directly. That was after almost two weeks.

[mega]

I can't speak for everyone, but I've tried both in our case. 

Someone finally got back to me yesterday but only after I contacted two separate service reps directly. That was after almost two weeks.

That's very unfortunate it took so long, hopefully it won't happen again..

Two weeks is a long time in production! I'm glad someone got back to you..

[neurosis]

Two weeks is a long time in production! I'm glad someone got back to you..

Yes, that's two weeks just to get them to contact us back. They still haven't sent anyone out yet and couldn't give us a date as to when they will be able to.

[Jeff]

We have a really good relationship with our local Okuma dealer and as such we get great service. We normally get next day service with occasionally waiting 2-3 days.

Same here, we have a mix of 10-12 Okuma lathes and mills and we've never once had an issue wit Gosiger servicing them. Their $ per hour of labor charge on the other hand isn't easy on the wallet.

[Tim Johnson]

That is one of the nice things about Okuma. It's their machine, their hardware, their controls, motors, etc. You don't have to worry about the finger pointing between control builder and machine builder. 

Does Ojuma make their own machines? I know that Enshu made/makes their 400mm, 500mm and 630mm horizontals and Okuma puts in their electronics. Back in the day they used Enshu's sheet metal.

[YoDoug]

Does Ojuma make their own machines? I know that Enshu made/makes their 400mm, 500mm and 630mm horizontals and Okuma puts in their electronics. Back in the day they used Enshu's sheet metal.

Knowing what I learned about Okuma's thermal comp process while working at the dist, both design and application, I would find it hard to believe that Enshu is making their horizontals. They do extensive testing on castings for thermal growth properties in Okuma's facility. The thermal sensors are embedded in the castings because Okuma found machining holes for the sensors post casting changes the thermal properties and affects the process. Seems like a difficult process to control if someone else is building it. Looking at picture of Enshu's on the web I can say that the spindles and pallet/B axis do not look like any Okuma I have ever worked on. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just another salesman lie that grew legs. Working for the dist we used to hear second hand stories from customers all the time that were from competitors salesman, that were flat out lies. Unfortunately I can say I have even worked with salesman that would say anything to try to win a sale. The Genos line of machines are built in Okuma's Taiwan factory with final assembly and testing done in JP. We used to hear all over town that our competitors were saying the Genos mills were a cheap knock off and not the same as the MB series. We would bring in the parts book for a MB-56 and a Genos M560V and show them it is the same ball screws, guides/ways, motors, etc.

It's been a few years since I worked for the Okuma dist, but from 2010 to 2018 while I did, all Okumas are made/spec'd by Okuma. Obviously they do outsource some things, as do all builders. Matrix ATC's are one for example that most builders outsource. All controls and electronics are Okuma design or spec. The PC front end is built to Okuma spec. The PLC is Fuji Electric to Okuma spec. As far as I know they don't own their own foundry so I believe the castings come from Doosan. Doosan provides casting for most Japanese machine tools.

[Tim Johnson]

Knowing what I learned about Okuma's thermal comp process while working at the dist, both design and application, I would find it hard to believe that Enshu is making their horizontals. They do extensive testing on castings for thermal growth properties in Okuma's facility. The thermal sensors are embedded in the castings because Okuma found machining holes for the sensors post casting changes the thermal properties and affects the process. Seems like a difficult process to control if someone else is building it. Looking at picture of Enshu's on the web I can say that the spindles and pallet/B axis do not look like any Okuma I have ever worked on. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just another salesman lie that grew legs. Working for the dist we used to hear second hand stories from customers all the time that were from competitors salesman, that were flat out lies. Unfortunately I can say I have even worked with salesman that would say anything to try to win a sale. The Genos line of machines are built in Okuma's Taiwan factory with final assembly and testing done in JP. We used to hear all over town that our competitors were saying the Genos mills were a cheap knock off and not the same as the MB series. We would bring in the parts book for a MB-56 and a Genos M560V and show them it is the same ball screws, guides/ways, motors, etc.

It's been a few years since I worked for the Okuma dist, but from 2010 to 2018 while I did, all Okumas are made/spec'd by Okuma. Obviously they do outsource some things, as do all builders. Matrix ATC's are one for example that most builders outsource. All controls and electronics are Okuma design or spec. The PC front end is built to Okuma spec. The PLC is Fuji Electric to Okuma spec. As far as I know they don't own their own foundry so I believe the castings come from Doosan. Doosan provides casting for most Japanese machine tools.

We had an Okuma salesman come in to our shop and our supervisor was showing him around. He also knew Enshu was making their horizontals and was discretely watching him as they were walking thru Enshu row (nine 500mm horizontals). This was when they looked exactly alike other than the color. At the next IMTS Okuma had changed the sheet metal. We bought our first horizontal in 2002 and our last Enshu in 2012? so it may have been before your time there. I wish Enshu made a 800mm hori. We have an 800mm and two 300mm Kitamura machines and our 20 year old Enshus hold better tolerances with our worst operators on them.

[CNCAppsJames]

I hear the X machine really isn't made in Y, it's made in Z and you know how bad their quality is less frequently these days.

Early late 90's through mid-2010's I heard it a lot. Today, not so much. I think because all the builders have at least some components outsourced then do assembly in Y or Z but all engineering and specifications are handled at the home factory.

Good machines are made in Korea. Good machines are made in Taiwan. Good machines are made in Japan, Germany, Switzerland, etc... Certain models from certain builders are going to have their issues... welcome to global manufacturing with price points.

[ghuns]

We had an Okuma salesman come in to our shop and our supervisor was showing him around. He also knew Enshu was making their horizontals...

I heard this as well. From both the Okuma rep and guys from Enshu.

Enshu is primarily a casting company. Considered to be one the best in Japan. Their machines are kind of a side thing for them. They cast for lots of different machine manufacturers.

We replaced our old Okuma MA-500 with a pair of Enshu GE590s. The guy who the president of Enshu USA commented that particular vintage of MA-500 was probably the best 500mm HMC casting ever made and that Enshu did in fact cast it.

It weighed A LOT more than the 600mm Enshus that replaced it.

[gcode]

We just signed a PO for a 2nd Okuma MU-1000 5 axis HMC
We bought the first one in 2013
Our best customer gave us their forecast for the next 2 years
They informed us that if we couldn't met it, they'd tool up and do it themselves
and ... if they did, we'd never see that work again.

We got very lucky..if you had to order one it would be 2 years from signing the PO to hitting the green button
Okuma had a machine sitting in their warehouse.
They built it in 2019 for 2020 IMTS which was cancelled due to the covid pandemic. It had been sitting there ever since.
We should have it up and running by the end of the year.

With diesel at $6.50+/gallon, shipping from the east coast will be brutal
It takes 3 semi's and one low boy to haul it.
The X axis trunnion assembly weighs 80K pounds !!! 

[crazy^millman]

We just signed a PO for a 2nd Okuma MU-1000 5 axis HMC
We bought the first one in 2013
Our best customer gave us their forecast for the next 2 years
They informed us that if we couldn't met it, they'd tool up and do it themselves
and ... if they did, we'd never see that work again.

We got very lucky..if you had to order one it would be 2 years from signing the PO to hitting the green button
Okuma had a machine sitting in their warehouse.
They built it in 2019 for 2020 IMTS which was cancelled due to the covid pandemic. It had been sitting there ever since.
We should have it up and running by the end of the year.

With diesel at $6.50+/gallon, shipping from the east coast will be brutal
It takes 3 semi's and one low boy to haul it.
The X axis trunnion assembly weighs 80K pounds !!! 

Going to need a foundation where it is going? Putting the main building where the 1st one is or in the back building? Just had a conversation with a new customer this week about a new purchase. Was focusing efforts in the wrong direction. We talked about a Stand along cell system from Matsuura to take the place of 2 VMC with a 3+2 trunnion added to them that is over 15 years old. One part at a time per run. I told him he could be looking at 24 per load and 30 hours of unattended run time verse their current 1-1/2 and non running for 14 hours every week day and then 48 hours on the weekend because it currently is a one load process. They have a $118/hr shop rate so in 1 year they could be gaining $724,048 is machine capacity. The would really gain double that because of the time they are not currently losing.

[gcode]

Going to need a foundation where it is going?

Yes, the foundation is about 15feet thick for the X axis, trunnion assembly and 10 feet thick for the  Z axis
components. We have to build it to Okuma specs and they have to buy it off, otherwise they will not
guarantee the rated accuracy

[crazy^millman]

Yeh but a Matts cell costs more money than 2x VMCs.....

Would also need 3 people working 8 hours a day 7 days a week to match the output of it. $80k Per employee plus benefits would be about $100k so would be looking at $300k verses one employee at $60k a year just needing to work 40 hours a week that is tending 4 cells not 2 VMCS. Just saying. 

[crazy^millman]

Stop being smart Ron 
I knew you were right with your first post - I thought I'd add the usual closed minded owners reply, when it comes to spending money   

That is such a given why say it?     

[gcode]

G
Is your original machine, still as accurate as new?

Yes, we've had trouble with the Z axis way covers. It roughs our vanes so fast the chips
crush them if the operator isn't on the ball
The machine is a tank and performs just like the day we took delivery