Sweet Vindication

[Jim at Gentex]

funny part is that I can't talk anyone into taking on the horizontals ,we have 7.
I keep telling my supervisor ,who I trained, that someday I wont be here then what?
 

Some places have managers who are just tone deaf when it comes to things like that.
Our Machine Shop is down to ONE Toolmaker who takes care of all of the manual machining needs for our whole facility.  He has told them for quite some time that he is planning to retire sooner rather than later, but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

The only other qualified Machinists in the place are myself and one of our CNC Operators.
So instead of planning for the retirement of their last toolmaker, I am 100% sure that when he does leave, one or both of us who are left will be asked to "fill in" there in the Machine Shop when they really need something done.

I don't mind because I am hourly and would make the same rate whether I am programming a CNC or cranking handles on a Bridgeport, but the lack of foresight is what bugs me. 

They KNEW this was coming, and they did NOTHING about it.

[DUM1]

They KNEW this was coming, and they did NOTHING about it.
[/quote]

they are going to be in for it pretty soon , building a place in another state and already have a new job lined out .
not only programmer I am the only one who can un do setups clear alarms and glitches and what not , all the operators are just operators , all the machinists left due to lack of raises over the years

[pmartin]

In the shop that I work in the toolroom has been unstaffed for over a year. The last guy retired on disability from carpal-tunnel syndrome about six months after his second surgery. The Doc told him that next time he would be left with two useless appendages so he made the right call. What management did wrong was they had a bright young guy in there trying his best to become a toolmaker without anyone to teach him. I suggested to them that they get the toolmaker back in to take on the role of tool designer and toolroom supervisor. He could have given this young guy the foundation that he needed. Needless to say my advise was ignored, the toolmaker has retired and the kid left for greener pastures leaving we 3 programmer/supervisors and the company president with the responsibility of satisfying the needs of our shop.

[gcode]

Our Machine Shop is down to ONE Toolmaker who takes care of all of the manual machining needs for our whole facility.  He has told them for quite some time that he is planning to retire sooner rather than later, but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

We had one toolmaker, 65 years old and way over qualified for what he did here.
He never mentioned retirement, but he was killed in a motorcycle accident 2 days ago.
He was a really good guy and a personal friend.
His loss has been instantly felt around here as the dozens of things he quietly and professionally did
are no longer getting done.
There is no one here remotely qualified to shine his shoes, let alone fill them.
Young people are totally disinterested in learning the toolmaking trade.
It really is a dying artform.
I have no idea what we will do now that he is gone.
There are very few people who cannot be replaced, but he was one of them .

[mega]

I would think that a 5k scrap would eat into the profit margin a wee bit. You'd think that people would learn from past mistakes and do better next time, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Ouuu are we talking Predator DNC now?!

[Incogneeto]

We had one toolmaker, 65 years old and way over qualified for what he did here.
He never mentioned retirement, but he was killed in a motorcycle accident 2 days ago.
He was a really good guy and a personal friend.
His loss has been instantly felt around here as the dozens of things he quietly and professionally did
are no longer getting done.
There is no one here remotely qualified to shine his shoes, let alone fill them.
Young people are totally disinterested in learning the toolmaking trade.
It really is a dying artform.
I have no idea what we will do now that he is gone.
There are very few people who cannot be replaced, but he was one of them .

Sorry for your Loss. It's sad to see someone's value as a person and a colleague lost to us by accident.
prayers for his Family.

[HTM01]

i gave 1 year notice i would be retiring , took 6 months to get a computer for for my replacement, trained him for 4 months they didn't come through with money and title , he left for $20,000/year more and better benefits
took 4 months to get approval for next replacement i was already gone for 2

[mega]

We had one toolmaker, 65 years old and way over qualified for what he did here.
He never mentioned retirement, but he was killed in a motorcycle accident 2 days ago.
He was a really good guy and a personal friend.
His loss has been instantly felt around here as the dozens of things he quietly and professionally did
are no longer getting done.
There is no one here remotely qualified to shine his shoes, let alone fill them.
Young people are totally disinterested in learning the toolmaking trade.
It really is a dying artform.
I have no idea what we will do now that he is gone.
There are very few people who cannot be replaced, but he was one of them .

Sorry for you loss G, I had to say goodbye to quite a few comrades over the years, I know it's not easy,
I actually started out working in toolroom doing Tool & Die, I would tend to agree it's a dying art, all of the guys I know who were toolmakers were very old..

[mega]

i gave 1 year notice i would be retiring , took 6 months to get a computer for for my replacement, trained him for 4 months they didn't come through with money and title , he left for $20,000/year more and better benefits
took 4 months to get approval for next replacement i was already gone for 2

This about sums up why young people are not interested in the trades, the money isn't competitive..

[Bruce Caulley]

This about sums up why young people are not interested in the trades, the money isn't competitive..

My take is that companies have been slow to recognise that the pool of talented people isn't as big as it was 20 years ago.  Thankfully it's coming back, but training was gutted for years.  As a natural progression a really good programmer/machinist might find themselves in management or apps by age 40.  Who replaces them?  Less skilled people.  And when the less skilled people eventually progress, standards drop.  I'm mostly away from the game now, but in a few typical shops that I know of I can only think of one younger fellow that would have made the grade in some of the shops I was at in the past.  Guess what?  He's now in a supervisory role and only mid-20's.  I'm happy for him, he deserves the career progression by any standard.  20 years ago the whole shop would have been around his standard.  It will take at least 10 years to turn it around. Thankfully current attitudes to trades are positive and training is being taken seriously again.

Cheers
Bruce

[CNCAppsJames]

been a programmer teacher a few times and enjoyed it , bad part is once I get them trained up they leave for better paying jobs . Good for them but I'm getting tired of training people so they can leave .
 

Think of it this way; YOU ARE helping the skills gap. Ok, so your company isn't reaping the rewards of the investment. So what. You are making an impact on something MUCH larger than yourself and you left someone in better shape than you found them. Take solace in that. I do. I put my fingerprints on hundreds of shops every single year. My gol is to leave them better than I found them. Even if it wasn't my job to do that I still woudl do it to continue ot make good on a promise I made in January of 1991 to two old Journeyman Machinists.

[CNCAppsJames]

This about sums up why young people are not interested in the trades, the money isn't competitive..

The money is not competitive out of the gate, but put in your own time, on youyr own dime if need be and the money will come. You may need to move for it, but that's kind of how things work in just about any field. An anesthesiologist in New York or LA is gonna pull down upwards of $400k. In Podunk Arkansas.. he'll make $200k if he's lucky.

[mega]

The money is not competitive out of the gate, but put in your own time, on youyr own dime if need be and the money will come. You may need to move for it, but that's kind of how things work in just about any field. An anesthesiologist in New York or LA is gonna pull down upwards of $400k. In Podunk Arkansas.. he'll make $200k if he's lucky.

You could also work hard at mcdonalds and work your way up to CEO, my point was that Machining/Cnc Programming field contains a lot of companies paying well below median wage, which is very low, most entry food packing plant jobs pay more than an entry level programming job or CNC operation or conventional machinist job.

[Jim at Gentex]

We had one toolmaker, 65 years old and way over qualified for what he did here.
He never mentioned retirement, but he was killed in a motorcycle accident 2 days ago.
He was a really good guy and a personal friend.
His loss has been instantly felt around here as the dozens of things he quietly and professionally did
are no longer getting done.
There is no one here remotely qualified to shine his shoes, let alone fill them.
Young people are totally disinterested in learning the toolmaking trade.
It really is a dying artform.
I have no idea what we will do now that he is gone.
There are very few people who cannot be replaced, but he was one of them .

Oh man...sorry for your loss.
It's even more devastating when it happens in an instant.

As for the toolmaking trade in general, yeah, I see it dying because of a lack of training and a general lack of interest.  We have had this conversation before.  Guys my age had the opportunity to go to Vo-Tech in high school to learn the basics in one of the many skilled trades like Machine Shop, Welding, Carpentry, Plumbing & Heating, Electrical, Auto Body, Auto Mechanics, etc...

Those schools are now either closed, or they are only offering courses like Cosmetology, Horticulture, and Food Service.  OK we do need Hairdressers, Florists, and Chefs, but we also still need Machinists, Welders, Carpenters, etc, and that training is no longer available at the high school level where I live.

We have one post-high school trade school in our area that still teaches some of those skilled trades, but the Machine Shop course is almost exclusively CNC operating and programming.  Kids are not learning the basics on the manual mills and lathes, so I don't know how they can start with CNC machining without having that fundamental training first.  I shit you not, I met a guy who was hired as a CNC Programmer who never tapped a hole, and didn't know what a center drill or a reamer was, or what they were used for. 

When everyone my age and a bit younger retires, I think our trade will be doomed unless something changes.

[HTM01]

The money is not competitive out of the gate, but put in your own time, on youyr own dime if need be and the money will come. You may need to move for it, but that's kind of how things work in just about any field. An anesthesiologist in New York or LA is gonna pull down upwards of $400k. In Podunk Arkansas.. he'll make $200k if he's lucky.

the kid i trained was very good, he had Mazak programming on machine to start, did some prime turning on some inconel that was impressive, the Co made promises that corporate dragged their feet on