Haas UMC-750 with Pallet Pool software glitch

[kccadcam]

We have a new Haas UMC-750 with a pallet pool.
Like this:
https://www.haascnc.com/productivity/product-options/pallet-pool-10-stn.html

Very basic Cell system, just assign a program to a pallet and schedule pallet priority.
You insert M199 at the end of your programs, this replaces M30
If you just press cycle start the program will run and rewind like M30 does.
If you put it in pallet mode, when the program ends it calls the next pallet and it's associated program.
Haas explains it as a combination of M50 (pallet change) and M99 (rewind program)
(remember this part)

A little slow but works well, until......

Had a part running in the machine with 3 other pallets scheduled to follow.
When the part is finished it is held on by a tab of material to break off when it shuttles out.
Heard a clunk in the machine, walked out to look and the part was laying in the bottom of the machine and a 3/4 3 flute endmill broke off in the spindle.....

The machine had read the M199, rewound the program but did not change pallets.
The first tool is that 3/4 endmill and all that was holding the part was a small tab......bang

Contacted local dealer, they came out and looked at it. Never could figure out why it did this.
A month later it happened again, (this is a 3000.00 part and a 220.00 Endmill)
Nobody seems to know why. Getting frustrated.
I finally sat down at the machine, made a couple test programs and tried every scenario I could think of to replicate this. No luck.
The next day my operator came in and said he found it.
We went out to the machine and he showed me what it was and we can replicate it over and over.

Are you ready???
If the pallet load station is not at it's home position when the program reads M199 it goes into an infinite loop
of the current program (M99) as soon as you rotate the load station back to home it will continue on with the scheduling!

I sent this off to Haas, "this is a known bug and we are working on it"
Are you kidding Me?
Not even a bulletin or warning to everyone with this pallet system?
Haas had better get this fixed soon.

If you know anybody using this system, please warn them.

 

[RobertELee]

So if I understand you correctly the operator station has to be rotated to home or this will happen? That's crazy! You'd think at the very least they'd let their resellers know....

[kccadcam]

So if I understand you correctly the operator station has to be rotated to home or this will happen? That's crazy! You'd think at the very least they'd let their resellers know....

Yes, that is correct.
We had just been lucky that it was always at the home position.
But just that one time it was not.....

[CADCAM396]

Thats nasty. there is a safety issue-possable bodily injury in there somewhere, and they knew about it.

wonder if there is simple macro check for that switch at end of program that could be used temporary?

[mkd]

Their software has been buggy for years. Problems with the UMC line are legion. Just go on practical machinist as see for yourself.
Every machine has weak points. Playing dumb is a good way to lose your reputation as a value tool company.
Having been introduced to premium machine tools, i'd NEVER touch a haas 5ax. Most of them either look like a joke or are outright. 20ft-lb spindle VR...really?

[mkd]

Thats nasty. there is a safety issue-possable bodily injury in there somewhere, and they knew about it.

wonder if there is simple macro check for that switch at end of program that could be used temporary?

seems like a simple enough patch for the developers to implement while they sort it out. They'd rather pump out machines than satisfy customers, obviously.

[kccadcam]

Thats nasty. there is a safety issue-possable bodily injury in there somewhere, and they knew about it.

wonder if there is simple macro check for that switch at end of program that could be used temporary?

I added a probe routine at the start of the program to check for the part-off slot,
if no slot continue, if the slot is there, alarm.

[CNCAppsJames]

When I NEED to be certain something is correct I use a probe. I can even check if a capscrew is tight.

[mkd]

Kinda interested in what the out the door price is on such a UMC setup. I know they have a cool build a quote on the website, But there seems to be perhaps a little debate as to how much you can get off that final price.
Last time I looked there was about a 30% premium to get a higher-end machine compared to the final build a quote price. With that 30% premium you get a pallet pool with way way way more value than what that sum portends.
 Feel free to tell me to STFU, as I'm probably coming off as a troll. So apologies in advance. I've been a Haas fanboy for years. There is certainly big value still being offered in their larger 3axis Mills for USA customers .
 But yeah, I've had a bit of a conversion to CNC Apps guy's way of thinking on premium tools🤷

[kccadcam]

UMC-750 -w- Pallet Pool, 15k spindle, all the bells and whistles.
247k out the door.
(the only drawback is it only holds 50 tools, there is a 70 tool upgrade,
Looks like a ferris wheel on the side of the machine)

I'm used to Grobs, Makinos, and Matsuuras in the 5 axis world.
The Company I went to is basically a reboot, starting from the ground up.
This is the first machine to get existing product out the door quicker,
then the plan is Makinos and Grobs.

My previous Company had about 40 Haas Machines, every vintage and type.
The arguments can go on for days, cost vs. performance.
Personnaly, I'll take a Grob anyday....

[TSmcam]

Down here, there seems to be shop with a Haas and Fusion 360 on every corner.

Same same
Same same

[neurosis]

Down here, there seems to be shop with a Haas and Fusion 360 on every corner.

Same same
Same same

We have a kid here who really wants to get in to programming.  He picked himself up a license for Fusion so he could do some odd job stuff. 

When he first started using it he loved it. Fast forward a year and his opinion now - "it's really buggy".  lol. 

[TSmcam]

We have a kid here who really wants to get in to programming.  He picked himself up a license for Fusion so he could do some odd job stuff. 

When he first started using it he loved it. Fast forward a year and his opinion now - "it's really buggy".  lol. 

I'm starting to hear that a bit too. All software has bugs, but at least some aren't buggy on "the cloud" LOL

A bug on a Haas control though. Especially when pallets are concerned, is a worry though

[CNCAppsJames]

A bug on a Haas control though. Especially when pallets are concerned, is a worry though

As someone who has had hands on literally hundreds if not thousands of pallet systems since the mid 90's... they (Haas) are still new to the pallet pool software game.. creating every possible scenario in testing is more difficult than one would think.

JM2CFWIW 

[TSmcam]

As someone who has had hands on literally hundreds if not thousands of pallet systems since the mid 90's... they (Haas) are still new to the pallet pool software game.. creating every possible scenario in testing is more difficult than one would think.

JM2CFWIW

I dont doubt it. That would be a real diffult task trying to come up with every scenario. It certainly wasnt a criticism, more an observation.