Just for Fun.

[neurosis]

Conversion Therapy is neither cruel nor inhumane... so long as it's voluntary.

I'm not trying to poke the bear here.  I have the utmost respect for you and don't want to start any arguments. 

Would you feel the same way if someone was trying to convert you in to being gay?

[Incogneeto]

Yes! I'm trying to convert you over to my side.  Accepting.  lol. 

that was a joke btw. 

I accept You...Just You.

ST is gonna have to work on it.

I know you know I'm just kidding her.

And yes I never take anything you say as mean.

Here comes the "Get a Room " Comment ....LOL!!

[neurosis]

That may be my last post on the subject.  I know too many people that can't be "conformed" in to what is  considered "normal". 

Quite an eye opener though.

[Incogneeto]

I'm not trying to poke the bear here.  I have the utmost respect for you and don't want to start any arguments. 

Would you feel the same way if someone was trying to convert you in to being gay?

Are you Talkin to me Or James??

I'm gonna need a Pic to Decide.

[Incogneeto]

You could be Incog's 10th Ex. LOL!!!!

[neurosis]

ST is gonna have to work on it.

She's still having a hard time with me. lol. 

[Incogneeto]

In my Day Liberace was as Gay as you could get Followed by Barry Manilow Waaay To Gay.

Then Freddie, judas priest and assorted others.(Elton) (George Micheal?)

Normalize I don't know.

Everyone has the right to live their Life.

But not force it on others.

I shall now Bow out.

[Incogneeto]

She's still having a hard time with me. lol. 

Hey at Least you are a Work in Progress.

[Incogneeto]

 would take Sympathy ex any Day of the week.

[CNCAppsJames]

I'm not trying to poke the bear here.  I have the utmost respect for you and don't want to start any arguments. 

Would you feel the same way if someone was trying to convert you in to being gay?

That's a reasonable question.

The reason I made my statement the way I did was intentional. Conversion Therapy should be 100% voluntary. I see it the same way I see treatment for a variety of physical and mental challenges. Conversion Therapy is banned here in the People's Republik of Kommieforniastan. We can literally kill an unborn human but if someone wants to do something about something that for any number of reasons they don't desire to have, they cannot get that treatment they desire. At least not above board.


Is Conversion Therapy successful? I have no idea. I have listened to people that claim it was for them. The homosexual community claims that if it worked for them then they were not homosexual in the first place. 

Is drug rehab successful? It was for me. Does that mean I was never a drug addict? It has never been harder for me to stay away from the stuff. When I was a kid, I had to work hard to find it. Today, sheesh, I only need to go to basically a convenience store practically down the street... to destroy my life. THAT is what keeps me away from it. It will destroy me and everything I hold dear because next time I won't be able to stop. I think homosexuality can be an equally destructive behavior.

In closing, I believe Conversion Therapy should be available to those that wish to seek it on a 100% voluntary basis the same way I believe addiction therapy should remain available. I hope that answers the question.

JM2CFWIW

[neurosis]

I think homosexuality can be an equally destructive behavior. 

It's not a behavior?

In closing, I believe Conversion Therapy should be available to those that wish to seek it on a 100% voluntary basis the same way I believe addiction therapy should remain available. I hope that answers the question.

I think if someone is going through a phase, they should be able to talk to someone about it.  Pushing people in to something that they are not is abuse. 

[Matthew Hajicek]

Conversion Therapy is neither cruel nor inhumane...

You obviously didn't read the article I linked, or at least not very closely.  Suicide attempt rates were nearly double as compared to nonbinary people who were not subjected to conversion therapy.

It's never truly voluntary if your religious leader, who you've been told all your life speaks the Word of God, tells you this is what you must do.  80% of conversion therapy attempts are performed by religious leaders, as opposed to people schooled in biology and psychology.

Telling someone they should feel bad about who they are until they can become someone else cannot be anything other than cruel and inhumane.

[beej]

All of this aside, and don't answer this if you don't want to; Do you have any close friends or family who are gay? 

I literally didn't know anyone (I thought) until I was in my mid 20's.  I started dating a girl who had a really rough military father.  Once I got to know him I got to hear the story about how he raised a family of four his entire life living a lie.  He was living with his gay boyfriend. I thought that they were roommates. 


I had a really good friend that I played ball with (no puns incog). We knew his whole family through high school.  His brother had been hiding the fact that he was gay his entire life.   He finally came out when we were in our 20's. 

That has to be a tough way to go through life.   You're not going to convince them to be straight anymore than they could convince you to be gay. 

yes. I know several people with SSA. I am not interested in converting people to a different sexuality. When I said that about epigenetics are a response to triggers within an environment that cause one reaction or another. I was just making the point that homosexuality most likely is not from that because if it were it would be reversible. I've heard some people talk about converting to heterosexuality in prison ministry, but my assumption has always been that something was off, either they were never SSA in the first place, or they are not being honest now.

But all of that aside, it's not conversion of sexuality that I would be interested in, it's the conversion of a heart that says, a person needs to have sex to be whole. It's not true. It's a lie being told by over and over, with devious intent. Sexuality is a behavior or an appetite that can be mastered just like any other behavior or appetite. I can eat sugar and my body can handle that, although too much can cause damage. but a person born with Type 1 diabetes, has to behave differently. And maybe that's not fair to him/her. but it just is what it is. I would never tell that person, "Screw the medical community, Do what makes you happy." I would try to help them with a healthy way of life.

 I had to do this for my son who found out that he had Type1a diabetes at the age of 23. just because I can eat sugar, doesn't mean that he needs sugar to be whole. I know, I know, it's just an analogy. It's not a perfect analogy. but there is truth in it. Some people are born with things that we wish for their own sake was easier for them. I sympathize. but telling a person that they need sex to be whole is probably the reason suicide is as high as it is in the LBTQ community.

[beej]

this is a true story from my small hometown from the late 80's. A guy went to our church. a small catholic church and he was active in it. He had a beautiful wife with 4 lovely daughters. His oldest daughter was probably around 14 and his youngest was around 5 or so. The man had some effeminate characteristics, that today would make you wonder if he was gay.

One day he decided he could no longer live a lie. He left his wife and family and moved in with another man. 5 years later he was dead from aids. It was such a trajedy. He fell for the lie that he needed sex to be whole. He had love. He had a woman who loved him. children who loved him. And truth be told, he loved his wife too. But he fell for the lie that he could not be whole unless his sexual appetite was met. It was a lie that killed him eventually.  Every single person in life has some craving that can be deadly if it is not kept in check. A hetersexual man could have had the same fate if left his wife because his sexual appetite was not being met.

So my point is not to convert people to different appetites. it's to encourage them to find their "wholeness" through a different means, namely to live for something bigger than carnal desires.

[Matthew Hajicek]

When I said that about epigenetics are a response to triggers within an environment that cause one reaction or another. I was just making the point that homosexuality most likely is not from that because if it were it would be reversible.

That would be a false assumption.  If your genetics or epigenetics are edited after puberty, your body will not immediately transform according to the new program like in the movies.  The structures have already been built, the code has been executed.  Even if changing the epigenetics at that point could be effective, you would have to edit every strand of DNA in the nervous system at least, possibly in the whole body.  Telling someone to feel bad about themselves does not edit their epigenetics.

But all of that aside, it's not conversion of sexuality that I would be interested in, it's the conversion of a heart that says, a person needs to have sex to be whole.

People are by and large not being persecuted for having sex, whether they're binary or not.  People are being persecuted for acting and dressing other than their biological gender, or for allowing it to be known that they do not identify according to strict conservative gender norms.  That is what is currently being pushed back against.