The next pandemic?

[Zoober]

a single Pork butchering plant will kill about 30,000-60,000 head of hogs per day. Just to keep up with demand. And they use every part of the hog.  How many acres would it take, to raise hogs like your grandfather?

There is not enough acres to meet the current demand for animal products using those types of farming. However the large factory farms are not sustainable and pose risks looking into the future. One way or another the world is going to have to find an answer for this, whether it is reduced consumption, lab grown as Tyler mentioned, or other. Considering the comorbidities that make Covid-19 deadly, our worlds current health trajectory, and rise of antibiotic resistant viruses, the next pandemic may be what addresses the problem by significantly reducing the human population. It would be nice to find a different solution but as long as we are happy getting cheap subsidized McRibs, we could be setting up a real catastrophic pandemic.

i guess, I don't understand why it is not sustainable. What virus's or sickness have come from these farms in the US? I know there have been food recalled from time to time for samonella, and such.  Also vegetables get recalled from time to time because of listeria concerns. But as far as infectious disease, what has happened, that I have missed?

Cowvid for one...

[Zoober]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=3201 time=1610486695 user_id=57]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ik-59-MRww&feature=youtu.be"> ... e=youtu.be">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ik-59-MRww&feature=youtu.be

Another thing about antibiotics (Amoxycillin, Zpak, etc) is they destroy your gut microbiome. Antibiotics don't care if its a virus, bad bacteria, or good bacteria that help the body. When you take antibiotics they actually destroy the good bacteria in your gut that help keep your immune system strong, regulate fat storage, regulate mood, etc.  Early last year I had a tooth die and needed a root canal. The tooth had gotten infected and I had to take antibiotics to get it under control. I made sure to go on a good probiotic regiment after and eat lots of prebiotic foods.
[/quote]
If you would have given that tooth a bit of bacon now and then, it wouldn't have committed suicide.

[beej]

neither, the H1N1 virus or the H5 virus was found to have originated in the US.  the first confirmed person to have contacted h1n1 in the US had traveled to china. the second person lived in San Diego.  About that same time, 2 people became sick in Vera Cruz, Mexico.  It was never tracked to a hog facility in the US.

H5 originated in China.

that is not to say that maybe someday something will not develop in the US.  But here is the thing. If you stop the meat industry in the US from doing what it does, how do you plan to feed the US?  do you think people will just stop wanting bacon? or pepperoni pizza?  No, the meat will come from some country that has poor health practices and no FDA to speak of.

these arguments remind me of animal rights activists who want to end trapping because they find it distasteful, but offer no solution to the damage control of muskrats, beaver, and raccoons.

But let's just say that someday in the future, we find out that Carbide is hurting the environment. Maybe not really hurting it, but some person who has never worked in the industry, fears that it does or might in the future, and let's say they want to ban it, and make us all, "in the US" start using highspeed steel endmills again.  And realize that we have no control over what china, mexico, or Brazil does.  Are you all in, on that. because that's not that different from what you're saying.

[pmartin]

But let's just say that someday in the future, we find out that Carbide is hurting the environment. Maybe not really hurting it, but some person who has never worked in the industry, fears that it does or might in the future, and let's say they want to ban it, and make us all, "in the US" start using highspeed steel endmills again.  And realize that we have no control over what china, mexico, or Brazil does.  Are you all in, on that. because that's not that different from what you're saying.

You will have to pry that carbide endmill out of my cold, dead hands.

[YoDoug]

neither, the H1N1 virus or the H5 virus was found to have originated in the US.  the first confirmed person to have contacted h1n1 in the US had traveled to china. the second person lived in San Diego.  About that same time, 2 people became sick in Vera Cruz, Mexico.  It was never tracked to a hog facility in the US.

H5 originated in China.

that is not to say that maybe someday something will not develop in the US.  But here is the thing. If you stop the meat industry in the US from doing what it does, how do you plan to feed the US?  do you think people will just stop wanting bacon? or pepperoni pizza?  No, the meat will come from some country that has poor health practices and no FDA to speak of.

these arguments remind me of animal rights activists who want to end trapping because they find it distasteful, but offer no solution to the damage control of muskrats, beaver, and raccoons.

But let's just say that someday in the future, we find out that Carbide is hurting the environment. Maybe not really hurting it, but some person who has never worked in the industry, fears that it does or might in the future, and let's say they want to ban it, and make us all, "in the US" start using highspeed steel endmills again.  And realize that we have no control over what china, mexico, or Brazil does.  Are you all in, on that. because that's not that different from what you're saying.

First paragraph of link below, CDC believes H1N1 came from gene reaasortment in pig from North America and Eurasian pigs. https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information ... rus_qa.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm

I am not saying we stop producing meat. I am saying stop the subsidies and let the free market prevail. If There is a reason why people eat so much meat, dairy, and sugar filled foods; they are subsidized to be the cheapest. If they were allowed to be priced by what the market will natural allow, consumption would go down. I understand that China and such would still produce cheap stuff, but that's what import taxes are for.

Ultimately, the problem will fix itself someday. Whether is the collapsed healthcare system and out of control deaths from heart attacks/diabetes, etc. or if it's from a new virus that kills the obese and unhealthy immune system people, it's gonna happen in our lifetime.

[Matthew Hajicek]

or if it's from a new virus that kills the obese and unhealthy immune system people, it's gonna happen in our lifetime.

Touché

[beej]

neither, the H1N1 virus or the H5 virus was found to have originated in the US.  the first confirmed person to have contacted h1n1 in the US had traveled to china. the second person lived in San Diego.  About that same time, 2 people became sick in Vera Cruz, Mexico.  It was never tracked to a hog facility in the US.

H5 originated in China.

that is not to say that maybe someday something will not develop in the US.  But here is the thing. If you stop the meat industry in the US from doing what it does, how do you plan to feed the US?  do you think people will just stop wanting bacon? or pepperoni pizza?  No, the meat will come from some country that has poor health practices and no FDA to speak of.

these arguments remind me of animal rights activists who want to end trapping because they find it distasteful, but offer no solution to the damage control of muskrats, beaver, and raccoons.

But let's just say that someday in the future, we find out that Carbide is hurting the environment. Maybe not really hurting it, but some person who has never worked in the industry, fears that it does or might in the future, and let's say they want to ban it, and make us all, "in the US" start using highspeed steel endmills again.  And realize that we have no control over what china, mexico, or Brazil does.  Are you all in, on that. because that's not that different from what you're saying.

First paragraph of link below, CDC believes H1N1 came from gene reaasortment in pig from North America and Eurasian pigs. https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information ... rus_qa.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm

I am not saying we stop producing meat. I am saying stop the subsidies and let the free market prevail. If There is a reason why people eat so much meat, dairy, and sugar filled foods; they are subsidized to be the cheapest. If they were allowed to be priced by what the market will natural allow, consumption would go down. I understand that China and such would still produce cheap stuff, but that's what import taxes are for.

Ultimately, the problem will fix itself someday. Whether is the collapsed healthcare system and out of control deaths from heart attacks/diabetes, etc. or if it's from a new virus that kills the obese and unhealthy immune system people, it's gonna happen in our lifetime.

A balanced look at subsidies, pro's and con's:
https://www.thebalance.com/farm-subsidies-4173885">https://www.thebalance.com/farm-subsidies-4173885

[YoDoug]

neither, the H1N1 virus or the H5 virus was found to have originated in the US.  the first confirmed person to have contacted h1n1 in the US had traveled to china. the second person lived in San Diego.  About that same time, 2 people became sick in Vera Cruz, Mexico.  It was never tracked to a hog facility in the US.

H5 originated in China.

that is not to say that maybe someday something will not develop in the US.  But here is the thing. If you stop the meat industry in the US from doing what it does, how do you plan to feed the US?  do you think people will just stop wanting bacon? or pepperoni pizza?  No, the meat will come from some country that has poor health practices and no FDA to speak of.

these arguments remind me of animal rights activists who want to end trapping because they find it distasteful, but offer no solution to the damage control of muskrats, beaver, and raccoons.

But let's just say that someday in the future, we find out that Carbide is hurting the environment. Maybe not really hurting it, but some person who has never worked in the industry, fears that it does or might in the future, and let's say they want to ban it, and make us all, "in the US" start using highspeed steel endmills again.  And realize that we have no control over what china, mexico, or Brazil does.  Are you all in, on that. because that's not that different from what you're saying.

First paragraph of link below, CDC believes H1N1 came from gene reaasortment in pig from North America and Eurasian pigs. https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information ... rus_qa.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm

I am not saying we stop producing meat. I am saying stop the subsidies and let the free market prevail. If There is a reason why people eat so much meat, dairy, and sugar filled foods; they are subsidized to be the cheapest. If they were allowed to be priced by what the market will natural allow, consumption would go down. I understand that China and such would still produce cheap stuff, but that's what import taxes are for.

Ultimately, the problem will fix itself someday. Whether is the collapsed healthcare system and out of control deaths from heart attacks/diabetes, etc. or if it's from a new virus that kills the obese and unhealthy immune system people, it's gonna happen in our lifetime.

A balanced look at subsidies, pro's and con's:
https://www.thebalance.com/farm-subsidies-4173885">https://www.thebalance.com/farm-subsidies-4173885

All the pros in that article are what if. What if drought, climate change, etc. All the cons are real, most importantly the inequality of subsidy distribution. Mega food corps lobby congress for subsidies in order to keep the cost of their products low enough to maintain market dominance. It's racketeering is what it is. Funny that the list of pros mentions protection from climate change disasters, but they don't mention the AG industries part in creating that climate change. They also talk about 80% of subsidies going to grain and that grain is the most consumed crop, but they leave out that half of that grain is used to feed livestock.

Hardly a balanced opinion. I would guess that with a little research into the backgrounds of the authors and contributors you would find ties back to big food industry.

[neurosis]

I can hear the complaints now.  It's not fair that only rich people can afford to eat meat!  

[YoDoug]

I can hear the complaints now.  It's not fair that only rich people can afford to eat meat!  

Would be an interesting world if the poor were actually the healthy because that's the food they could afford and the rich would be the unhealthy. Exactly opposite of what we have now.

[Matthew Hajicek]

In medieval and renaissance times it wasn't uncommon for the wealthy nobles to have gout and other issues from their meat based diets.  They'd make it a point of pride to never eat plants, because that was for commoners.  Having a little bit of meat in their stew was a special treat for the lower classes.

[beej]

Hardly a balanced opinion. I would guess that with a little research into the backgrounds of the authors and contributors you would find ties back to big food industry.

LOL.  thebalance.com  is a money-economic news website, as in balance sheets.  I just thought it was a balanced article because it gave pro's and con's.

as far as what-if's go.  I would say that farmers would say that drought, floods, tornadoes and hail are all real.  Those subisidies come in the form of crop insurance which they purchase from the federal government.  Other subsidies come in the form of reduced taxes. and then there are subsidies that are commodity subsidies. I don't really understand how that works, but I'm guessing that the federal government buys/sells grain in order to minimize fluctuations. but now we are just talking about grain.  I don't know of those kinds of meat subsidies.  do you?  Beef and Pork prices got pretty low after the trade war with China and there was nothing bringing those prices back up.  About 10 years ago, pork was down to about 13cents lb.  and local church's here started buying pork from farmers for church socials in order to help them out.

[Del.]

Mmmmmmm Lab Meat

[neurosis]

Mmmmmmm Lab Meat

Now that's a steak you don't have to feel guilty about putting ketchup on.

[Del.]

And Hot Sauce