Vericut Force Optimization

[JParis]

JP how is the Force module working out? I am getting it added to my license, looking for some feedback before I jump fully into it blindly.

We have it installed but a "hair on fire" project got dropped in our laps and I have had no time to put into it as yet...

We're still waiting on our training....the brunt of that lies on us though...so nothing to really report back as of this point.

[JParis]

To update this...

We finally put our first part out on the floor that has been run through the Force Optimize software...

This part runs on a tombstone 16 parts, 4 per face.....cycle time was 13 hrs 45 min.....51:30 min:sec per/part

AFter proving out a single piece on the tombstone, it was then placed back into production....

16 parts, 4 per face cycle time 8 hrs 33 mins....32:06 min:sec per/part

We still have over 8k of these to make with follow on orders possible....

Based on a shop rate of $125/hr, the remaining quantity.....current savings off of the first job are north of $256k

As we went at job 1 slightly conservatively as we simply didn't know how things would go....I feel there is still a bit of time to pull out of this as well...

Quote from the guy watching this run  "this thing is flying!"

[JakeL]

To update this...

We finally put our first part out on the floor that has been run through the Force Optimize software...

This part runs on a tombstone 16 parts, 4 per face.....cycle time was 13 hrs 45 min.....51:30 min:sec per/part

AFter proving out a single piece on the tombstone, it was then placed back into production....

16 parts, 4 per face cycle time 8 hrs 33 mins....32:06 min:sec per/part

We still have over 8k of these to make with follow on orders possible....

Based on a shop rate of $125/hr, the remaining quantity.....current savings off of the first job are north of $256k

As we went at job 1 slightly conservatively as we simply didn't know how things would go....I feel there is still a bit of time to pull out of this as well...

Quote from the guy watching this run  "this thing is flying!"

Gotta ask a dumb question, do you think you could save much time if you reprogrammed the part? Or is the programming pretty maxed out?

Reason I ask is I could understand a 5-10% decrease in cycle time, but you've got almost 40%. Makes me wonder if there are a bunch of air cuts or small cuts that get sped up to near-full-rapid. And if so, can these small cuts be reprogrammed to be larger cuts?

[JParis]

Gotta ask a dumb question, do you think you could save much time if you reprogrammed the part? Or is the programming pretty maxed out?

NO. This part was gone over, cuts cleaned up, larger tools used where possible...jump heights brought down..we had already put A LOT of work into cutting the cycle time down...we "might" have been able to bleed maybe another minute, maybe two, manually.

This is the first part and I certainly don't expect those kinds of numbers across the board...I went into the thinking 10% hoping for a bit more but even the guys at CGTech say they forecast conservatively but that it's not uncommon to see north of 20% savings....if this first foray is any indication of that, we're on a good path....

[JakeL]

NO. This part was gone over, cuts cleaned up, larger tools used where possible...jump heights brought down..we had already put A LOT of work into cutting the cycle time down...we "might" have been able to bleed maybe another minute, maybe two, manually.

This is the first part and I certainly don't expect those kinds of numbers across the board...I went into the thinking 10% hoping for a bit more but even the guys at CGTech say they forecast conservatively but that it's not uncommon to see north of 20% savings....if this first foray is any indication of that, we're on a good path....

That's crazy to hear, makes me think I should be getting a demo lined up. Sounds like it's gonna work out well for you guys.

One of our problems is 80% of our cycle times can be cut in half just by reprogramming. Wasn't sure if that was the case for your example.

[gcode]

Those are impressive numbers.
Talk about instant ROI!!

What material are these parts?
I would think the  biggest gains would be seen in the toughest materials.

Does it modify canned drilling cycles into longhand to optimize drilling??

I'd like to try Force, but at this place 3 parts is a production run.

[JParis]

Those are impressive numbers.
Talk about instant ROI!!

What material are these parts?
I would think the  biggest gains would be seen in the toughest materials.

Does it modify canned drilling cycles into longhand to optimize drilling??

I'd like to try Force, but at this place 3 parts is a production run.

This part is 7075 aluminum....we leave the spot, drilling and tapping cycles out...

CGTech built their demo for us off of this exact part...they looked at it and told us right from the get go, that someone had put a lot of time into that part already to bleed out time...we actually bettered their demo time by a chunk....

But I would imagine a part with more cycle time, regardless of material, could see substantial gains.

[TSmcam]

That is great to hear you've had a really good result on your first Force optimized part John.

I've seen nothing but good things out of it. It is relatively expensive, but the payback can be pretty quick. And CGTech are very supportive of end users with it. They give you a lot of help (which is general support ethos of CGTech)

[JParis]

Have you ran the new prog in file compare to existing?

The program has been run in the machine and first pieces have already been approved....and been placed back into full-time production...

What are the actual differences - "just driving tools faster"?

The Optimize doesn't really change your code....it "might" break up and arc into a smaller move but the motion remains the same...it won't change your actual tool motion....it takes the settings of your tools and based on how you want to approach the optimize, it can come it from several different variables, it pushes your tool up to the calculated "force" point that you set....it will then push feedrates up or down to avoid getting into spikes in load....

Ovarall it may slow some path, and push others but overall it creates a faster, cycle time which should be easier on tooling as your not overloading it....

We're still learning the in's & out's buy jaws were agape this morning....

[Here's Johnny!]

Although I assume with this much cycle time difference, most of the prog has altered feeds!

I have the add-on but haven't had time to learn how to use it. From what I understand it alters the speeds and feeds using a physics based approach.

[gcode]

Revisiting this thread.

We've recently brought in some long run Ti parts with decent volume.
The contract is for roughing only (milling and turning). The finish work is done elsewhere.
To me it seems a perfect application for Force.
I've talked to my bosses and reached out to CGTech Sales.

[Here's Johnny!]

I've talked to my bosses and reached out to CGTech Sales.

They will likely provide you with a sample based on one of your programs for this. Great for twisting the arms of the penny pinching bosses!!!

[gcode]

They will likely provide you with a sample based on one of your programs for this. Great for twisting the arms of the penny pinching bosses!!!

Yes, we have one part in production now
My programmer did an excellent job on it.
It was quoted at 30 hours and is running about 25, but the bosses and the customer want more parts faster.
This should be a perfect demo part for Force.

It also got me thinking.. we do lots of heavy roughing on very large mild steel lathe parts.
We already push them till the ground shakes but it pounds our big VTL's into junk.
Maybe Force can keep the cycles up and reduce the wear and tear on the machines.

[JParis]

Revisiting this thread.

We've recently brought in some long run Ti parts with decent volume.
The contract is for roughing only (milling and turning). The finish work is done elsewhere.
To me it seems a perfect application for Force.
I've talked to my bosses and reached out to CGTech Sales.

We sent a completed Mastercam file and proven program....they ran it through Optimize as a test

[gcode]

We sent a completed Mastercam file and proven program....they ran it through Optimize as a test

I figured that was the case and I have the perfect part/program for this