"Esprit for mill/turn and Mastercam for Mill" Why?

[gcode]

I was looking at lost of different packages back then.
When I was looking, the VTM was a pretty new model.. ours was the third one in the US.
I don't know how many there were worldwide.

As far as the worst goes I'd say it was a tossup between NX and Catia.
We had a manager here for a lifetime few years who tried to switch us to a Catia house.
I think he spent about $250K on Catia..  looking at the license server, it can't even figure out
how many seats/modules we have.
I wouldn't even attempt a guess on training, post development and downtime costs.

He'd been gone about 6 months when AP sent me the maintenance invoice and asked if we should pay it.
One year was $65K..I said no.
We only use Catia to maintain repeat jobs that were programmed during his tenure now.
Catia is pretty cool stuff, but the interface is awful IMO,  and the learning curve is like free climbing a cliff face.
 

[TSmcam]

I was looking at lost of different packages back then.
When I was looking, the VTM was a pretty new model.. ours was the third one in the US.
I don't know how many there were worldwide.

As far as the worst goes I'd say it was a tossup between NX and Catia.
We had a manager here for a lifetime few years who tried to switch us to a Catia house.
I think he spent about $250K on Catia..  looking at the license server, it can't even figure out
how many seats/modules we have.
I wouldn't even attempt a guess on training, post development and downtime costs.

He'd been gone about 6 months when AP sent me the maintenance invoice and asked if we should pay it.
One year was $65K..I said no.
We only use Catia to maintain repeat jobs that were programmed during his tenure now.
Catia is pretty cool stuff, but the interface is awful IMO,  and the learning curve is like free climbing a cliff face.

I remember the pain you and your company went through with Catia, and *that* manager. That would have been a tough environment to be working in.

There is a local company looking at one of those VTM's, although I think the price is putting them off. Not to mention some blinkered staff LOL. The VTMs look like an interesting machine to program. I'd like to have a go at one of them.

[CNCAppsJames]

Catia is pretty cool stuff, but the interface is awful IMO,  and the learning curve is like free climbing a cliff face.
 

CATIA CAM kicked my ass for a while. Took me at least a full year banging on it to gain enough proficiency to be satisfied that it did not win the war. It beat me in the battle at Arnold Engineering in Corona for the 80-ish days I was there. I didn't make probation... in hindsight ...that was a blessing in disguise as soon later I started at the company I've been with since January 2007.

CATIA CAD I liked. The workflow seemed logical to me and I'd say I was almost as good with the CAD as I was in Mastercam after a few weeks/month. The interface was not the best by a long shot. The CAM though... even though I gained proficiency over the next 10 years with it, the logic was just never there for a lot of it. For every toolpath there's like 5 main tabs, then depending in the toolpath, there would be a minimum of 2-3 sub-tabs for each tab and almost every sub-tab had data it needed so you didn't wipe out your machine and/or your part.

[gcode]

There is a local company looking at one of those VTM's, although I think the price is putting them off. Not to mention some blinkered staff LOL. The VTMs look like an interesting machine to program. I'd like to have a go at one of them.

It's a very cool machine
Programming it in Mastercam is difficult because so many functions are handled by mics integers and tricks
If you don't program it all the time you forget that stuff.
I need to put a best practices notebook together for that machine.
With the right type of work, and a good programmer and operator, that machine is a license to print money though.

If I had it to do over, I'd upgrade the tool magazine.
Ours has the stock 30 stations and it is not nearly enough for a machine like that.

[TSmcam]

It's a very cool machine
Programming it in Mastercam is difficult because so many functions are handled by mics integers and tricks
If you don't program it all the time you forget that stuff.
I need to put a best practices notebook together for that machine.
With the right type of work, and a good programmer and operator, that machine is a license to print money though.

If I had it to do over, I'd upgrade the tool magazine.
Ours has the stock 30 stations and it is not nearly enough for a machine like that.

I still remember visiting and looking inside it. That and the MU. Really impressive.

Misc Integers/Reals are handy, but forgetting to set them can burn if you dont have a competent operator who picks up on those things. Hah, they have caught me out many times before.

I agree, thirty tools is pretty minimal for a machine that size.

It sounds like the local company is preferring the Mazak equivalent over the Okuma. Price is one thing, but I cant help but thing they wont get the same support.

[gcode]

Misc Integers/Reals are handy, but forgetting to set them can burn if you dont have a competent operator who picks up on those things. Hah, they have caught me out many times before.

That machine is very smart.
If programs, tools and setup aren't right, it won't run.
The collision avoidance is very powerful.

One time I was drilling a hole thru a fixture plate.
The breakout point was on the C/L of a T slot so we wouldn't drill a hole in the chuck.
The machine was set up properly and the T slot was correctly positioned but the machine would not drill the hole.
It turned out the STL file representing the chuck was 90° out of rotation from real life
so CAS though the drill would hit the table.
Once we oriented the stl file to reflect the actual chuck on the table the toolpath ran fine.
It was a real PIA, but pretty impressive all the same.

They will be sorry they bought Mazak.
The company we do most of our work for has three huge Mazak Intergrex mill/turns.
At any given time 2 of the three are down.
It's so bad a Mazak service tech is on near permanent assignment there.
The main problem is the tool changer.
The system is so complex they cannot keep it running.
I should be glad.
Over the years, they have pulled various parts from us because they have tooled up the Intergrexes to run them.
We always get them back though as the machines are down so much they can't make deliveries.

[TSmcam]

I agree, the CAS is very good. It is a bit of a pain to set it up, but as you experienced, if something is wrong it will pick it up.

We have it on our Mill/Turns and 5 Axis, but only really used it on the Multus in the early days. Using TS for initial simulation, and then Vericut, has our bases covered now. Plus some of the tools have changed since the initial CAS setup, and we haven't got around to updating them.

Yes, I cringe at the thought of Mazak. They dont have such a good rep down here either, from a couple of companies I have spoken to.

[JakeL]

When I was looking, the VTM was a pretty new model.. ours was the third one in the US.

First time I've ever heard of a VTM. Looks like a pretty slick machine. What make / model you guys have?

[gcode]

First time I've ever heard of a VTM. Looks like a pretty slick machine. What make / model you guys have?

It's a VTM 1200-YB  with a Ø40" hydraulic 4 jaw chuck and a  Capto C8  40HP 10k milling spindle
It's a very nice machine but it requires a high end guy to set up and run,
I'd love to get it's big brother the VTM 2000 with a Ø78" table.

[gcode]

For some reason I can't edit my last post
The brand is Okuma

[JakeL]

It's a VTM 1200-YB  with a Ø40" hydraulic 4 jaw chuck and a  Capto C8  40HP 10k milling spindle
It's a very nice machine but it requires a high end guy to set up and run,
I'd love to get it's big brother the VTM 2000 with a Ø78" table.

Looks like a sick machine

[gcode]

Looks like a sick machine

there are a few You Tube video  on it.

[JakeL]

there are a few You Tube video  on it.

I was watching a couple of those. The fact that the spindle can move like anywhere, over the part, to the side of the part, tilting around. The extension of the whole tool change arm took that cake for me tho. I had to do a double take when I saw that.

[mkd]

We pay pretty good, but .......

that was not my experience. Pay was poor, but I guess that as my bad among many other issues. Not many can survive in that environment which is a massive credit to you, gcode.

[gcode]

that was not my experience. Pay was poor, but I guess that as my bad among many other issues. Not many can survive in that environment which is a massive credit to you, gcode.

The pay was poor back then.
We have new management now.
Pay and vacation time is much better
Health insurance not so much.
It's still crazy town here most days though.