Christspiracy Movie

[Dan_AKA_ROY23]

^ What's not clear to you? I'm really confused.

[YoDoug]

^ What's not clear to you? I'm really confused.

Again all of this was Gods concessions for our failures. not what he wants for us.

Do you think if you stand before God and ask him how he feels about billions animals  killed every year he will say it is not a problem?

[Del.]

Ludicrous 14:23

" Thou shall eat meat "

That should clear things up.

[Dan_AKA_ROY23]

Again all of this was Gods concessions for our failures. not what he wants for us.

Do you think if you stand before God and ask him how he feels about billions animals  killed every year he will say it is not a problem?

IF I'm standing before God? (I'm not asking any questions! LOL)

Fair enough. All good, Doug.

[YoDoug]

IF I'm standing before God? (I'm not asking any questions! LOL)

Fair enough. All good, Doug.

I guess I just have seen enough scripture and enough animal cruelty and enough empathy and emotion from sentient animals that I can't put up that "mental wall" anymore. I know It's wrong and I can't ignore it and say it's ok to take the life of an animal. that has a desire to live.

[Del.]

I guess I just have seen enough scripture and enough animal cruelty and enough empathy and emotion from sentient animals that I can't put up that "mental wall" anymore. I know It's wrong and I can't ignore it and say it's ok to take the life of an animal. that has a desire to live.

I believe they were put here for us to eat. It's sad sometimes but it's the way nature is. I hate to see a Lion eat and kill a Zebra but if he doesn't eat he dies. Eating vegetables only for humans stops the killing of livestock but people were raised on meat and like it. If research shows it adds to early death   they really don't give a fuck.

[Jim at Gentex]

I guess I just have seen enough scripture...

Apparently not this...

(Luke 24:42-43) 42So they gave Him a piece of broiled fish, 43and He took it and ate it in front of them. 

This verse does not IMPLY, Jesus ate the fish, it says it in plain English.

And you are absolutely correct about this:

Either we take what is literally in the bible or we just make up a bunch to fit our desires.

Look, it's OK if you choose to not believe it, but please stop insisting it's not in the Bible when it CLEARLY is.

Or that the 'experts' in a movie with a pre-conceived conclusion are right, and everyone else who has actually studied the texts in the original languages and contexts are wrong.

You can't honestly read Luke 24:43 and conclude anything other than what the text plainly says, no matter what the so-called experts say.

btw Doug, this is not personal.
I do admire your convictions, I just disagree with your sources of information.

[YoDoug]

Apparently not this...

This verse does not IMPLY, Jesus ate the fish, it says it in plain English.

And you are absolutely correct about this:

Look, it's OK if you choose to not believe it, but please stop insisting it's not in the Bible when it CLEARLY is.

Or that the 'experts' in a movie with a pre-conceived conclusion are right, and everyone else who has actually studied the texts in the original languages and contexts are wrong.

You can't honestly read Luke 24:43 and conclude anything other than what the text plainly says, no matter what the so-called experts say.

btw Doug, this is not personal.
I do admire your convictions, I just disagree with your sources of information.

I would challenge you to watch the movie and research their claims, I am a poor messenger of the information.

Unfortunately I am really struggling finding the time to find all of the verses that support my views. I know they are there, I have read them and watched/listened/read analysis by bible scholars that would put all of our combined knowledge to shame. So many points are there if you are open to see them. 

Like when God allowed Noah to eat animals, he then said animals will now fear you. That clearly demonstrates the previous designation of what the relationship between animals and humans was.

Everybody loves to talk about Jesus turning over the tables of the money changers in the Temple, but never what exactly the money changers were doing. They weren't changing USD to Euro's. The temple was built with and elaborate drainage system to accommodate all of the blood and mess from the for profit business of slaughtering animals that the temple had become. Everybody loves to focus on the "money changers" aspect and ignore that God could have very well been pissed about the for profit killing of his creation.

When Jesus gave himself as the sacrifice he said we no longer needed to do any sacrifice, AKA, sacrificial killings of animals.

What started out as a sacrifice of an animal to God, then morphed to you can eat the sacrifice, then to we will do all kinds of sacrifices for food, then to a slaughter house profit racket in God's temple. To our modern for profit, not even pretending to be a sacrifice, mass killing of Gods creatures.

Again, the question that everyone keeps ignoring. When you are in front of God if you ask him if he was ok with the killing of billions of his creatures every year what do you think he would say? Sin entered this world and that is why there is suffering, both for humans and for animals, but surely God would not say he is ok with it. It really shows the love of God that he will continue to give the breath of life to billions of animals every year year so they can be killed against their will for our desires of our flesh.

The same goes for the earth. Google pollution in China or the great pacific ocean plastic patch. Do you think if you asked God if he was ok with our destruction of his creation for our own personal greed he would be ok.

The last thing I will say on this is I am looking at this from the other side now. I spent the majority of my adult years in the church believing and saying the same things about eating animals that are being said here. I said those things regularly to my mother-in-law when the topic came up. For years I had a hardened heart and had a clear mental wall to separate me the truth of killing God's creatures. Eventually the cognitive dissidence became too great and "wall" crumbled. In one of the last conversations I had with my MIL before she passed, after I had changed my views on animals, she told me how she had been praying for me that God would show me the same things in his word that she now understood about killing animals. I am grateful that I got to have that conversation with her.

 

[rdshear]

If God didn't create animals to be eaten, why did he create carnivores.  If he didn't want animals to be killed and consumed as food, wouldn't all his creations have been herbivores?

[YoDoug]

If God didn't create animals to be eaten, why did he create carnivores.  If he didn't want animals to be killed and consumed as food, wouldn't all his creations have been herbivores?

He didn't create carnivores. The lion laid with the lamb in the Garden. Sin entered the world and changed that. Before Sin there was no killing of any kind. All creatures lived in harmony as God created them.

[neurosis]

you know what seems even worse to me? An athiest scientist. What's the use of that? We're just going to learn all of this stuff about how the universe works, math, physics, history of how it happened, and then what? bang in to the Andromeda galaxy and all the knowledge we learned is just gone?

Man! if I was an athiest, I would just dive into any kind of debauchery I could invent, and then, rot when it's over. what would be the use of spending all your time in a lab trying to figure out a series of random events and then teaching what you've learned about those random events.

You make it sound as if you need religion or you just wonder around leading aimless, pointless lives.  ugh.   

I spent the majority of my adult years in the church believing and saying the same things about eating animals that are being said here.

I have to admit, I never even considered that this could become a religious debate. 

[Jim at Gentex]

Unfortunately I am really struggling finding the time to find all of the verses that support my views.

And yet you STILL have not acknowledged the simple truth of Luke 24:42-43.

JESUS ATE FISH.
If it were a sinful act, He not only would not have done it, He would have been INCAPABLE of doing it.

And PLEASE don't tell me I am misinterpreting that verse, because sometimes the Scriptures are so simple a small child can understand them. 

Everybody loves to talk about Jesus turning over the tables of the money changers in the Temple, but never what exactly the money changers were doing.

Again, Jesus explained Himself in simple clear terms, so we don't need to speculate.

Matthew 21:13 (ESV)
He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you make it a den of robbers."

These are His words, not mine.

The sin Jesus was condemning was that they were ripping people off, stealing from one another, hence His use of the term 'den of robbers', or 'den of thieves' in other translations.

Why didn't He say 'killers' or 'murderers' instead of 'robbers' or 'thieves'?
Does Jesus not know the difference between a thief and a murderer?

Again, let the text speak for itself and apply some logic and common sense.
If Jesus were condemning the killing of animals in this text He would have said so.

Lastly, I'm glad you got to make peace with your MIL before she passed.
Some people never do that, and then they have regrets after the other person is gone.

[YoDoug]

In a non-religious aspect of animal consumption, there is a guy named Alex Hershaft. He is a Holocaust survivor and an animal rights activist. He is famous for saying "to the animals, we are the Nazi's". He makes great comparison between his experience in Nazi Germany Holocaust camps as a kid and how factory farmed animals are treated. The same cattle cars used to transport animals and Jews to the killing. They were both given a number and not identified by a name. Similar cages and conditions.

[YoDoug]

And yet you STILL have not acknowledged the simple truth of Luke 24:42-43.

Yes in that verse it does indicate that Jesus ate the fish he was given. However there is greater meaning to that verse. His disciples did not believe he had risen and that he was a spirit or ghost. He tried to convince them by telling them to touch him, but they still did not believe. Finally he asked them for food to convince them he was really risen. They gave him fish so he ate some to show them he was real.

Now your turn, Do you think God would be ok with billions of his creatures being killed annually? When we breed livestock for food are we creating the life or is God?

Please read this article and tell where it is actually wrong, not your opinion, but where their facts or assertions can be easily proven false. https://medium.com/sant-mat-meditation-and-spirituality/evidence-that-jesus-and-the-original-aramaic-christians-were-vegetarians-b8784ac42506

[Del.]

The story of the Prodigal Son clearly says " to kill the fatted calf". It was raised to be eaten, and was used to celebrate his son returning home