Maintenance Fee increase

Started by gcode, July 11, 2024, 04:10 AM

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riverhunter

Quote from: TSmcam on September 19, 2024, 02:07 PMIs Mill/Turn a seperate module in NX?

So to program a Multus, you would need Lathe, Mill, and Mill-Turn?

No. There is no mill-turn license.

TSmcam

Quote from: riverhunter on September 19, 2024, 03:35 PMNo. There is no mill-turn license.

Ah, so their Mill Turn subscription is a bundle. That makes sense.
CNC Softwares own 'lil piece of Poison Ivy.
TopSolid for the Win :)

gcode

Quote from: riverhunter on September 19, 2024, 01:49 PMYeah.... Siemens went full blown subscriptions.  you can still get a perpetual license from a dealer, but its going to run 3 x a sub price and need maintenance on top of that. 

https://www.dex.siemens.com/plm/nx-for-manufacturing?cclcl=en_US&spi=4001351


They sure aren't pricing that for the job shop market.  :cry:
We used to have one seat of UG that was not on maintenance and the hard drive that had the network license
on it crashed.  They wanted $1K for a new license, even though it was a perpetual license.
We didn't have any posts and no one used it. I asked then to quote posts for our shop and they came in at $200K
I showed them the door.

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JParis

Quote from: gcode on September 20, 2024, 05:20 AMThey sure aren't pricing that for the job shop market.  :cry:
We used to have one seat of UG that was not on maintenance and the hard drive that had the network license
on it crashed.  They wanted $1K for a new license, even though it was a perpetual license.
We didn't have any posts and no one used it. I asked then to quote posts for our shop and they came in at $200K
I showed them the door.



Back in the day, 2005/06'ish company decided to go with NX, 2.0/3.0 timeframe, 8 designs seats, 1 cam license, at that time it was an eye watering $54/k to buy the cam seat...

I don't even know what the full cost of everything was but I had heard between software and training it was around $750k.

After months of engineering coming to a near standstill and the shop getting shoddy support, the decision was made to dump it and go with Solidworks and stick with & upgrade Mastercam.

Posts?  lol, yeah, no.

I know others like it, I just know it was not a good experience for myself and the company I was working for at that time.
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kdg

Quote from: riverhunter on September 19, 2024, 01:49 PMYeah.... Siemens went full blown subscriptions.  you can still get a perpetual license from a dealer, but its going to run 3 x a sub price and need maintenance on top of that. 

https://www.dex.siemens.com/plm/nx-for-manufacturing?cclcl=en_US&spi=4001351


Well that's disappointing. AFAIK we're still perpetual / maintenance, I'm sure they've paid the bill for so long nobody questions it.


riverhunter

Quote from: gcode on September 20, 2024, 05:20 AMThey wanted $1K for a new license,

ha ha.... they still do that if your not on maintenance.  totally pissed me off one time when my mother board went out and had it repaired. called them up and asked for the license to be paired with new system and was told... No problem...that will be ONEEEEE THOUSAAAAAD DOOOOLLLORS

gcode

Yup...my previous job was a local company that had been swallowed up by a Fortune 500 company.
All IT was managed remotely from Georgia. Getting a Mastercam update installed or new SpaceMouse drivers
required the signatures of 2 supervisors and would probably get vetoed by the IT department in Georgia.
I only lasted 8 months at that clown show before I quit.

Before I started there they had made the decision to switch to UG. There was no training, no posts and no support
but we were expected to use it.
Somehow I got on an email chain of a squabble between my employer's accounts payable and UG's billing department.
The emails flew back and forth for a couple of weeks over an outstanding invoice for $150K.
Account's payable insisted they'd paid it, UG kept saying this is a new bill and it wasn't paid.
Then UG started throwing Maintenance Expiration notices.
It was Comedy Central for a while. The clowns running that show had deployed 5 seats of UG into the Engineering Department and had no idea what maintenance was.... or why they had to pay it.
That place is dead and gone now, but that's no surprise.

kdg

Quote from: gcode on September 20, 2024, 05:20 AMThey sure aren't pricing that for the job shop market.  :cry:

Nope, they're after the tier 1, auto, aerospace, etc.
Small guys with a dozen seats & support needs are just a pia to them.
Glad I don't write the checks. The functionality sure is nice though.

JParis

Quote from: kdg on September 20, 2024, 05:48 AMThe functionality sure is nice though.

I am trying to remember some years back, what functionality? I am genuinely wondering.

I know at that point they still had a way to put out APT code but beyond that, I can't think of anything they could do from a toolpath process that can't be done in a half dozen other CAM systems? Sure, they did some differently but it was really the same at the end.


gcode

#174
When I first came to work here our UG vendor was UG.
They had a nice campus in Cypress and I actually took a couple of classes there and went to a seminar.
Then I was informed that Tata Tecnologies ( out of India) had taken over our account because we were a small
business. The definition of "small business" was less that $100 million/year.  ::)
These were the guys who wanted to charge me $1k to replace a dead license and $250K for posts.
That was the end of my relationship with UG.


kdg

Quote from: JParis on September 20, 2024, 05:56 AMI am trying to remember some years back, what functionality? I am genuinely wondering.

I know at that point they still had a way to put out APT code but beyond that, I can't think of anything they could do from a toolpath process that can't be done in a half dozen other CAM systems? Sure, they did some differently but it was really the same at the end.



Sorry, I should have been more clear.
We don't have a manufacturing license, I haven't used NX for toolpath since I came here in 2005.
We build plastic injection molds. I mainly use modeling, drafting, & mold wizard.
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riverhunter

#176
Quote from: JParis on September 20, 2024, 05:56 AMI am trying to remember some years back, what functionality?

Im MC guy now for the most part.  still do some NX programming for two local shops but off the top of my head.

Post... over 1500 available for free.  fairly easy to modify. 240+ machine simulations also free.  easy to modify if you have the machine builder license 100% model driven so no drawing any geo no need for levels, because you don't draw anything 100% stock aware. Milling- Turning even step drilling or countersinking it know where there is stock and where there is not.  Automatically slows feed rated to actual IPM by calculating the radius the tool is moving. Ability to have HSM, RGH, FIN speeds and feeds with proper step over calculated with one button and varying by machine chosen ( 12k spindle vs 30k along with machine rigidity accounted for ) Rev changes are a breeze as it compares both revs and show's the difference then applies all the paths that didn't change and REMOVES the old rev so no multiple models / revs in a file.  the list goes on and on.  At the end of the day most cam packages can do this...just haven't used one that doesn't require more work to do it.

MasterCam has made every part I have ever asked it to.  just takes longer. and sometimes I need to ask you fellas here on the forum a question from time to time.  Without this forum mastercam would be much more difficult for me.

and to clarify ... a Post with Gcode Driven machine Sim runs $2500.00 to $5000.00 if purchased  as long as you provide the machine models.

you can download NX for free similar to the mc HLE.  I don't recommend doing it.  its one of those things that really takes 3-6 months to become comfortable and appreciate.  other wise its nothing but curse words so loud the machinist on the floor will hear you.

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kdg

Quote from: riverhunter on September 20, 2024, 06:11 AMMasterCam has made every part I have ever asked it to.  just takes longer. and sometimes I need to ask you fellas here on the forum a question from time to time.  Without this forum mastercam would be much more difficult for me.

Yeah, from my recollection NX mfg is more complete, polished, & stable.
As I recall NX gives you much more control of the entire process.
Post/Machine builder are very powerful & pretty simple.

Mastercam probably has much of the same functionality now, but it's more work.
Pretty much every function I use has some sort of quirk (aka bug) to work around.


kdg

Quote from: riverhunter on September 20, 2024, 06:11 AMyou can download NX for free similar to the mc HLE.  I don't recommend doing it.  its one of those things that really takes 3-6 months to become comfortable and appreciate.  other wise its nothing but curse words so loud the machinist on the floor will hear you.

Yeah, it took probably a year or more for me to really become proficient / comfortable with NX.

Side note, how do I edit an existing forum post here?

riverhunter

Quote from: kdg on September 20, 2024, 06:42 AMYeah, it took probably a year or more for me to really become proficient / comfortable with NX.

Side note, how do I edit an existing forum post here?

Btm right of your post it says.  Quote Edit More
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