Kennametal Novo is Terrible

crazy^millman · January 28, 2021, 01:15 PM

Have a new customer who is partners with Kennametal and they purchased a Integrex I200 with a KM4X spindle.This is not compatible with anything else according to them like HSK-63A. They don't offer any information online expect through NOVO and I have not like it since it was introduced and today reminded why is sucks. I want to download all the models so I can build my tool library for the MT.environment and not have to go adding them later. All in one place and done. Well you have to download their models one by one. You have the ability to add all the models to an order or my tools, but not download all the models at one time. Slow and the names of the models don't have part number for ordering in them. I keep hearing the word world class being thrown around by a lot of different companies and NOVO is not anywhere near the world of class much less anything I would consider World Class. :_thumbdown: :_thumbdown: :_thumbdown: :_thumbdown:

YoDoug · January 28, 2021, 01:28 PM

I'm not a big fan of the KM holders. As far as I know they don't offer adapters for other tools. If you have and HSK you can get an HSK to Capto if you need a certain Capto tool. You can do the opposite as well. KM forces you to buy their tooling. I wouldn't ever consider a machine with a KM spindle.

CNCAppsJames · January 28, 2021, 02:07 PM

The benefit is it's theirs and you're captive. Duh.

I actually like the NOVO app. It's very helpful in tool selection. I use it quite often. It's MUCH easier to find a tool in NOVO than Sandvik's garbage application.

crazy^millman · January 28, 2021, 02:26 PM

Like James said they have you right where they want you. They offer an adapter to one of their other KM systems, but not to anything else. I will probably get the customer to get a blank and will make our own CAPTO C5 holder and when Kennametal is bringing the big wigs around to tour the shop they can see me using 10 other manufactures tools in the machine.

Several customers use the CAPTO systems and I have them about memorized for what CAPTO and what holder they are. I have built 100's of combinations of Sandvik tools. HSK is still great and seeing discussions about HSK to CAT being far superior due to dual contact, but I put CAT40 Big Plus and CAT50 Big plus in Ti against HSK any day of the week. Aluminum I think HSK has the edge, but not by the factors I keep seeing taughted out there. One website had HSK 50X greater than BIG PLUS and I just shook my head going no way.

huskermcdoogle · January 28, 2021, 02:46 PM

Well I had a nice long reply put together, but it somehow got lost when I went to post it.... Short version now...

Ron, I'm happy to collaborate with you at some point to gather the info on what would make it better for creating assemblies in MCAM from NOVO. I get deeply frustrated by it every time I work a turnkey milling project with a customer. I haven't done enough with MT to know if I am doing it right or wrong, but I have had challenges with both getting Capto and KM tools to locate properly on my turrets. I don't see either being any better or worse at this point.

James, I would completely agree that Sanvik's online deal is garbage as well. Unless you know the part number of exactly what you are looking for then it is super easy.

Some recent changes to the way you search for tools in NOVO frustrate me, but all I can say is use and pay attention to the filters on the right side, they are your ally and enemy at the same time when it comes to finding what you are looking for. It's gotten much better over the years, but there are still some gaps and inconsistencies in the database that make it hard to filter out the noise.

if anyone is interested, I will see if I can find some bending moment charts for KM vs others that are suitable for public consumption. Hopefully such a thing is readily available. I know where I can find one, just not sure if I can post that one or not. The difference between KM4X and Capto is profoundly different. For the large stuff, we don't have any mainstream KM4X125 yet, but in tests apparently it's a gamechanger for roughing Titanium. The spindle connection quickly is taken out of consideration of being the weak link like it so normally is. Apparently Boeing was the impetus for developing KM4X and in testing was the only spindle connection that could start to realize the Machine and Tool's full capability. (we are talking large profilers cutting Ti in this case)

dcolin · January 31, 2021, 11:43 AM

Hi all,

Did you try Machining cloud (soon web app only)?
I don't use it often but you can make your assemblies and you can export all your assemblies from a whole job to CAM/CAV systems.
https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=21/04/yvs4.jpg">

huskermcdoogle · January 31, 2021, 12:58 PM

Quote from: dcolin post_id=5389 time=1612122188 user_id=127Hi all,

Did you try Machining cloud (soon web app only)?
I don't use it often but you can make your assemblies and you can export all your assemblies from a whole job to CAM/CAV systems.
https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=21/04/yvs4.jpg">

It works ok. But still leaves a bit to be desired...

CNCAppsJames · February 01, 2021, 08:38 AM

So far, there doesn't seem to be a perfect solution from any company. Seems like they ALL have some quirks that require work-arounds or manual intervention of some sort.

That said, if I need an assembly built, NOVO seems like the only solution I can get one through. I got so fed up with Sandvik's App this weekend, I uninstalled it. Not only is it near worthless, my laptop takes a real performance hit with it installed.

crazy^millman · February 06, 2021, 08:23 AM

Quote from: huskermcdoogle post_id=5221 time=1611874001 user_id=117Well I had a nice long reply put together, but it somehow got lost when I went to post it.... Short version now...

Ron, I'm happy to collaborate with you at some point to gather the info on what would make it better for creating assemblies in MCAM from NOVO. I get deeply frustrated by it every time I work a turnkey milling project with a customer. I haven't done enough with MT to know if I am doing it right or wrong, but I have had challenges with both getting Capto and KM tools to locate properly on my turrets. I don't see either being any better or worse at this point.

James, I would completely agree that Sanvik's online deal is garbage as well. Unless you know the part number of exactly what you are looking for then it is super easy.

Some recent changes to the way you search for tools in NOVO frustrate me, but all I can say is use and pay attention to the filters on the right side, they are your ally and enemy at the same time when it comes to finding what you are looking for. It's gotten much better over the years, but there are still some gaps and inconsistencies in the database that make it hard to filter out the noise.

if anyone is interested, I will see if I can find some bending moment charts for KM vs others that are suitable for public consumption. Hopefully such a thing is readily available. I know where I can find one, just not sure if I can post that one or not. The difference between KM4X and Capto is profoundly different. For the large stuff, we don't have any mainstream KM4X125 yet, but in tests apparently it's a gamechanger for roughing Titanium. The spindle connection quickly is taken out of consideration of being the weak link like it so normally is. Apparently Boeing was the impetus for developing KM4X and in testing was the only spindle connection that could start to realize the Machine and Tool's full capability. (we are talking large profilers cutting Ti in this case)

Sorry just reading this. Shoot me an email and we can go over it more.

[email protected]

Kennametal Novo is Terrible

YoDoug