libertarian win: Ross Ulbricht

[mkd]

Yes, silk road.
Create a website: double life sentences +40 years

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Edit: Trump pardoned him. Promises made, promises kept

[neurosis]

I don't know much about this guy. I've seen his name on a couple of libertarian sites but never looked in to it.

I'm not sure how he became a cause for libertarians, but it sounds like he did some pretty messed up stuff. Including on multiple occasions allegedly(?) making murder-for-hire deals?

[RobertELee]

Including on multiple occasions allegedly(?) making murder-for-hire deals?

"After Ross was arrested in San Francisco in 2013, he was sent to NYC for prosecution. At his bail hearing in NYC, prosecutors alleged that Ross planned murder-for-hire on six people he had never met and claimed that he was too dangerous to be granted bail.
Yet, when Ross was indicted a few months later in early 2014, the allegations were absent from the indictment.[2] Later, when Ross's trial took place in NYC in early 2015, the murder-for-hire allegations were still absent from his charges. The NYC prosecution never charged Ross for murder-for-hire and all his charges at trial were non-violent.
Right after Ross's arrest, prosecutors in the state of Maryland filed a separate indictment that contained the only allegation of murder-for-hire ever filed against Ross. The indictment referenced an alleged hit on Curtis Green, a Silk Road administrator (more on Curtis Green below). For nearly five years, that indictment was left untouched, unprosecuted. Eventually, in July 2018, the District of Maryland dismissed it with prejudice, meaning it can never be re-filed or used against Ross again.[3][4]"

[neurosis]

So basically, he set up a dark web site where people could freely purchase and sell drugs using crypto?

"engaging in a continuing criminal enterprise, narcotics conspiracy, conspiracy to commit money laundering, and conspiracy to commit computer hacking."

He was never indicted on "murder-for-hire" charges, but received two life sentences?

If the murder-for-hire thing is bunk, it looks like they wanted to make an example of him.

[Jeff]

it looks like they wanted to make an example of him

That's what I got from that video as well. But I only watched about half of it.

[beej]

I have never heard of this case till now. but while reading about it, I saw that 2 FBI agents involved with his arrest were later arrested and convicted because of the case. not sure why.

[RobertELee]

I have never heard of this case till now. but while reading about it, I saw that 2 FBI agents involved with his arrest were later arrested and convicted because of the case. not sure why.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-federal-agents-charged-bitcoin-money-laundering-and-wire-fraud

[neurosis]

Cases like this are what I hate about conspiracy charges. This guy sets up a site to sell drugs (or whatever else) and gets caught. The DOJ charges with 'conspiracy to .......'  and then anyone who uses the site to commit that crime, he's responsible for.

It sounds like he was offered a plea agreement and didn't take it?  If that's true, he found out that wasn't too smart. The deals don't get better after that initial plea agreement and unless you're one of the big dogs who can afford to duke it out with the Federal government, your f'd.

[mkd]

I think he got the jan06 treatment.
 

[RobertELee]

It sounds like he was offered a plea agreement and didn't take it?  If that's true, he found out that wasn't too smart. The deals don't get better after that initial plea agreement and unless you're one of the big dogs who can afford to duke it out with the Federal government, your f'd.

Or he didn't take it because he knew he wasn't guilty of what they were charging? Would you take a plea if you knew you were innocent?

IMO they were using this ruling to set a precedent and scare all other websites operators to straighten up and police themselves or they will be prosecuted the same.

Or maybe the .gov was scared of the competition? 2 lifetime sentences plus 40 years is crazy.

[neurosis]

Or he didn't take it because he knew he wasn't guilty of what they were charging? Would you take a plea if you knew you were innocent?

This was the point of bringing up the conspiracy charges. He doesn't need to be doing the crime himself. He's running the site so if he knows that his site is being used to commit these crimes (I'm not even sure he has to know?) he's responsible for the crimes being committed. I haven't looked in to it, but I'm guessing they had proof that he knew exactly what was going on.

If you have 1000 people selling drugs on your site and you're getting away with it for even a few years, that adds up fast and he can be charged with the entire dollar amount of all 1000 people accumulated over those few years. The judges have to adhere to sentencing guidelines so it could easily turn in to a massive sentence.

The prosecutor can offer to charge him with a lesser amount and offer him downward departure in exchange for his cooperation in the plea agreement, but if he refuses the plea agreement, the prosecutor can say "fuck it" and charge him with the entire shebang. They would have told him this when they offered the plea agreement. 

IMO they were using this ruling to set a precedent and scare all other websites operators to straighten up and police themselves or they will be prosecuted the same.

Yea, I mean, if you're going to set up a website with the intention of allowing people to commit crimes, it's you're own fault is it not? It sounds like that's what he did? But yea, I agree that this definitely looks like a case of "we're going to make an example out of you so nobody does this shit in the future".

[mkd]

This was the point of bringing up the conspiracy charges. He doesn't need to be doing the crime himself. He's running the site so if he knows that his site is being used to commit these crimes (I'm not even sure he has to know?) he's responsible for the crimes being committed. I haven't looked in to it, but I'm guessing they had proof that he knew exactly what was going on.

If you have 1000 people selling drugs on your site and you're getting away with it for even a few years, that adds up fast and he can be charged with the entire dollar amount of all 1000 people accumulated over those few years. The judges have to adhere to sentencing guidelines so it could easily turn in to a massive sentence.

The prosecutor can offer to charge him with a lesser amount and offer him downward departure in exchange for his cooperation in the plea agreement, but if he refuses the plea agreement, the prosecutor can say "fuck it" and charge him with the entire shebang. They would have told him this when they offered the plea agreement. 

Yea, I mean, if you're going to set up a website with the intention of allowing people to commit crimes, it's you're own fault is it not? It sounds like that's what he did? But yea, I agree that this definitely looks like a case of "we're going to make an example out of you so nobody does this shit in the future".

Now use this not unreasonable take and apply it to Facebook, Gmail Instagram et. al. Etc. using section 230
 Should Zuckerberg go to jail for 11 billion years?
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Free market REKO would be proud of

[mkd]

Or he didn't take it because he knew he wasn't guilty of what they were charging? Would you take a plea if you knew you were innocent?

IMO they were using this ruling to set a precedent and scare all other websites operators to straighten up and police themselves or they will be prosecuted the same.

Or maybe the .gov was scared of the competition? 2 lifetime sentences plus 40 years is crazy.

Yeah all that ^^

Afraid of the competition has got to be part of it. They deemed crypto currency as not a currency because they can't have people switch to something they can't kill the value of.. it would mess up their fiat currency ponzie scheme.

[neurosis]

Now use this not unreasonable take and apply it to Facebook, Gmail Instagram et. al. Etc. using section 230
 Should Zuckerberg go to jail for 11 billion years?
.
.
Free market REKO would be proud of

I think something like Napster would be a more accurate comparison.

I can give better examples, but I'm not going to.. 

[mkd]

I think something like Napster would be a more accurate comparison.

Swerve.
 I asked you a question, Mr.