Say bye to your land Ukraine. Sucks to be you.

[Smit]

Nobody falls. They jump.

[Jeff]

We should probably just keep giving them billions every month that half of can't be accounted for

Some of it is 10% for the big guy, and some of the weapons are sent to Mexican cartels.

[ghuns]

Who didn't see this coming?!?! It sounds like the U.S. is going to help Putin get his pay day.

The only way to make Russia give back any Ukrainian territory they have taken is to engage in an actual shooting war with them.

[Smit]

The only way to make Russia give back any Ukrainian territory they have taken is to engage in an actual shooting war with them.

In the short run I'd agree with that.

But history has shown that in the long term invaders are defeated by supplying the invadees the resources to resist them until it is so costly, in both resources and people, for so long it's just not worth it for the invaders. Reference Russia in Afghanistan or the U.S. in Vietnam. Where each of us sponsored the war against the other and eventually the invaders withdrew.

Yes, it took a long time and lot of resources. Driving Russia from the Ukraine would be hugely expensive for everybody sending resources right now.

The alternative is to give Putin the strategic victory that would justify the invasion for them.

Of course Putin would agree to provide assurances Russia won't attack Ukraine or other countries in the future, which we all know would be really reassuring.

[Smit]

The inevitable push back. Because Trumpers won't understand this, but Trump isn't the President of the world.

Looking at the bright side, Putin is impressed by the deal Trump has offered him.

EU warns against 'dirty deal' on Ukraine after Trump-Putin phone call

[RobertELee]

The inevitable push back. Because Trumpers won't understand this, but Trump isn't the President of the world.

Looking at the bright side, Putin is impressed by the deal Trump has offered him.

EU warns against 'dirty deal' on Ukraine after Trump-Putin phone call

If you're so worried about them how about you go over to Ukraine and help them then? I honestly don't give a shit about them anymore. One of the most corrupt countries in the world and they just keep taking my money with nothing to show for it except for that "10% for the big guy".

[Smit]

Good point Bob.

[RobertELee]

Good point Bob.

Need help packing?

[CNCAppsJames]

But mUh #RuSsIa #rUsSiA #RUsSia

[Smit]

Need help packing?

Well sure Bob.

[CNCAppsJames]

Need help packing?

Ukraine wouldn't take him. They have standards. Russia might though... they are taking North Koreans Smitforbrais will fit right in with them.

[beej]

The inevitable push back. Because Trumpers won't understand this, but Trump isn't the President of the world.

Looking at the bright side, Putin is impressed by the deal Trump has offered him.

EU warns against 'dirty deal' on Ukraine after Trump-Putin phone call

I think that it was probably important to surprise Putin to some degree to get us out of this. There has to be some kind of off-ramp for him to end this war. I say "us" because we are funding it, largely. And you're right about not trusting Russia to invade again. There is bipartisan agreement on that. All of this would have been a lot easier if the war had never started in the first place. The only real bright side to any of this is that we now know the effectiveness and ineptitude of Russia's military. And the Putin Administration's infighting that killed off several high ranking officials was probably good for us as well.

[Smit]

I think that it was probably important to surprise Putin to some degree to get us out of this.

Like a surprise party?

Who doesn't like a surprise party!?!?   

(Ukraine and the EU, that's who!) 

[CNCAppsJames]

...The only real bright side to any of this is that we now know the effectiveness and ineptitude of Russia's military....

Their exploits in the electronic warfare sphere is something that SHOULD send shivers up our military's spine.

NOTHING happens out in the open in Ukraine or Russia that isn't seen via camera/surveilance somewhere.

[beej]

Like a surprise party?

Who doesn't like a surprise party!?!?   

(Ukraine and the EU, that's who!) 

Let's not forget the EU's and Ukraine's own role in this. How long has it been since Ukraine became independent? Why have't they spent more time and money increasing their military strength? How long did it take Israel to build it's own military strength after starting from Scratch in 1946? Compare that to Ukraine. Why didn't Ukraine weed out the corruption in it's own government to do what Poland did and become part of NATO? Yeah, it sucks for them now, but it would behoove us not to forget how they got there.  And the same goes with the EU. Who was Germany trying to get the bulk of the energy from just a few years ago? Russia. They could have bought that energy from a NATO country who is already spending money to protect them from the country they were planning on purchasing natural gas from, couldn't they?  I'm not sure if you have forgotten but when Biden told Ukraine that Russia was about to attack them, they didn't even believe it. Neither did the EU. It was the US and the UK  telling them they had better prepare. They made this bed they are lying in.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/21/why-ukrainians-dont-believe-in-war-with-russia-distrust-west
https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-didnt-believe-russia-would-invade-ukraine-despite-us-warnings-2022-10