MC2026 Level manager

[neurosis]

I'm guessing you folks also have SWX?

We stopped paying maintenance on SW back in 2015. I've been using SW almost since it came on to the market.

I asked because the CAD, in my opinion, isn't as good in TS.

It's good enough that there isn't anything that I can't do with it, but that feels like a cop-out? Anybody hear that before? 

[Brian]

@Brian

We have over 25 seats of Solidworks.

And need more

Hi John:

I'm guessing you use some sort of PDM with SWX then? (I have no experience with their PDM).

[JParis]

Hi John:

I'm guessing you use some sort of PDM with SWX then? (I have no experience with their PDM).

Absolutely, full blown PDM

Also have Cimco NCBase for all programs and setup docs.

[neurosis]

Here is a question for both of you guys. Why is PDM important?

[JParis]

Here is a question for both of you guys. Why is PDM important?

Revision control, part file,  drawing.

Unlike stuffing things in a folder with dates and always trying to make sure you've got the latest,  the only files available ARE the latest released files.

For admins PDM can keep all previous versions in case of a rollback but the daily user can only get the latest.

Editing a file requires the file to be checked out. The users can be controlled as to who can view and who can check in/out a file.

There's more to it but that's the overall gist of it

[neurosis]

Revision control, part file,  drawing.

With TS, you're forced in to a PDM. There isn't a choice.

In our shop it's kind of a pain in the ass.  It took me a while to get used to it but I don't mind it.  I don't use it for revision control. I take care of that on the side.

That does make sense though.

[Brian]

I asked because the CAD, in my opinion, isn't as good in TS.

It's good enough that there isn't anything that I can't do with it, but that feels like a cop-out? Anybody hear that before? 

It's been quite some time since I really did much CAD in SWX, so I don't consider my opinion to be terribly useful. I *will* say that I like TS CAD alot, and the whole program is just great for what I do.

Curious to hear where you think TS is better than SWX-surface modeling perhaps? Assemblies?

Maybe Zack will chime in here?

[Brian]

With TS, you're forced in to a PDM. There isn't a choice.

In our shop it's kind of a pain in the ass. 

My only PDM experience is with TS, so again-take my opinion with a grain of salt, please. If anybody had asked me if I had any need for PDM I would have said "no." When I switched from TS6 to TS7 however I started to realize a few ways this helps, though as I'm now working alone, it isn't primarily about managing data properly in a multi-user environment like @JParis is.

When I switched, I still had 1 employee and was thinking that setting up PDM server for the 2nd license would be helpful. Then CV19 hit, and I pressed pause on that, and this fellow retired after that anyway. Although I *did* buy the PDM Server license, I never got around to setting that up, so I'm using TS in "Local PDM Server" mode I guess you could say. No worries....

There are simple things like being able to move/rename/delete files without any downstream issues. Occasionally it's helpful to have a look at older-rev files (so you just toggle on the show revisions/show backups in the project tree), search capability is excellent (not just finding files but also references and back-references).

Aside from having to first import files into the PDM after saving them to disk, you can just about ignore it if you want-it doesn't feel like it "gets in the way" in my opinion. Sure, check stuff in and validate it if you want, but bad stuff doesn't necessarily happen if you don't.

What is the pain-in-the-ass factor from your perspective?

[JParis]

it isn't primarily about managing data properly in a multi-user environment like @JParis is.

In our shop it's kind of a pain in the ass.

and not being familiar with TS, I am wondering how their PDM actually works...and wondering why it's a PITA, it really should be seamless. Always been my experience that when there's issues, it's generally a PICNIC

The company is approaching 500 employees...we have multiple Engineers across multiple disciplines, all using Solidworks. I currently have 4 people, including myself, we all use Solidworks. We are doing all of the fixture design & detail drawings, yes we create drawings & BOM's of the fixtures, we have recently begun to officially release the part Manufacturing drawings that we create based on each operation, and all of the programming. I also keep all of our approved 3D print templates in PDM.

Does TS PDM allow different files extensions? 

Then we have the DNC & NCBase which handles all communications(shortly after the new year we will be up to 78 production spindles) and all of the setup docs and NC files.

Soon, even the latest Mastercam file will be stored in the PDM vault.

If we then make the jump to a PLM all of those files in their different vault locations, will all be tied to a single part.

Now let's add the 4 users in our Mold Shop, then add the 6-8 users of varying skill level in our tooling/prototype area....

That's where I think the biggest difference is for us....I am guessing that many/most of you guys all work in much smaller shops and don't have all of the moving pieces that I deal with at the scale I deal with...I am not disparaging TS in any whatsoever, I truly know little to nothing about it other than what it is...

I imagine in an environment where there are few, if any controls in place or a new company getting going, it absolutely fills a need.

[neurosis]

What is the pain-in-the-ass factor from your perspective?

When we first started using TS, the search function felt unpolished and awkward. It evolved with the newer versions, and it became less inconvenient. I was still bouncing back and forth between MC and TS. and I was used to how we had our files organized so using a PDM took some getting used to.

We had also had some issues during a couple of the upgrades. You'll have to correct me if I'm wrong on this, it's been a while, but originally we had a choice between using TS database software if you were standalone, and SQL server. At some point, they moved the standalone to SQL server. During that update, our database was corrupted, and it took several days to get it sorted out. We eventually had to import a backup in to the new version of TS. I don't remember the specifics, I just remember it being a total pain in the butt.

It feels like the more the database/vault grows, the longer it takes to load.

There are simple things like being able to move/rename/delete files without any downstream issues.

This is really nice. I've never had an issue with file renaming in MC once they added stock models. In the old days, we used STL files, and it seemed like I would have to repair links to the STL files after upgrades. Again, that's also been a while, so I may not be remembering that perfectly.

I don't mind being tied to a PDM now that I'm used to it. It just felt like an unnecessary inconvenience when we started using TS. Since it was a standalone install, we didn't have to worry about multiple people working on or accessing projects.

Does TS PDM allow different files extensions? 

Yes. I store everything related to a job in the TS Project. I don't know if there are any limitations to that. I haven't found one yet.

[JParis]

Yes. I store everything related to a job in the TS Project. I don't know if there are any limitations to that. I haven't found one yet.

We are moving the remaining things into PDMWorks..Cimco NCBase will remain the location for setup docs and programs as those are all available to the floor so they can print as well as send & receive programs.

When you consider that in the Programming area just 3 years ago,  we stored everything in dated folders and someone used to have to go through all of the received programs and place them into a release folder and everything was manually done by date. We didn't use Solidworks,  we didn't have Vericut, we didn't have a viable communication system, the in house system was mostly non-functional,  most programs were carried and loaded via USB. I still have new machines to finish getting hooked up by IT and then all configured but we're eons from where we were.

I've driven a LOT of change in a short period of time.

[Zoffen]

I've driven a LOT of change in a short period of time.

If I were in your shoes i would probably do the same thing. You just got everything "dialed" no sense changing for changes sake if you can't justify the possible efficiencies gain.

[JParis]

if you can't justify the possible efficiencies gain.

At this point, I don't know where I'd find them. I think my biggest gains to be had at this point, just getting the entire process smoothed out...but that's more of a planning issue. We're 100% offline, so saving 10 minutes programming something is not generally going to be a big factor in anything.

[CNCAppsJames]

New rig came today. Got 2026 installed and ran the benchmark. Dropped about 1min 10sec from previous best. Came in at 2:21.

Tomorrow I'll start th real process of migration. 

[CNCAppsJames]

So... did my first Mastercam 2026 to CAMplete 2026 project today.  Was mostly uneventful.

CAMplete uses levels 995-ish to 1004 I think. The name field contains information that gets written to the export XML file. So if you have those levels named, it locks stuff up. I'll try to re-create the issue I ran into today then submit to CAMplete.

That levels manager... ooooof. That IS going to take some getting used to.