Robot Arms

[Jeff]

could someone explain the difference?
I am utterly clueless when it comes to robots

I think cobots can operate without a cage and stop when they meet unexpected resistance.

[gcode]

stop when they meet unexpected resistance

define resistance
before or after they remove someone's head?

[Jeff]

define resistance
before or after they remove someone's head?

From Chat GTP:

Cobot (Collaborative Robot)
Purpose:
Designed to work with people in a shared workspace without physical barriers.

Safety Features:
Includes force and proximity sensors that detect human presence, allowing the cobot to slow down or stop to avoid collisions.

Programming:
Can be programmed by physically guiding them through tasks or using simplified coding, making them easier to use and set up for less experienced users.

Speed & Power:
Generally slower and less powerful than industrial robots, with strength comparable to a human.

Applications:
Ideal for tasks that benefit from human interaction, like assembly, quality control, and packing, especially in smaller-scale or flexible operations.

[YoDoug]

define resistance
before or after they remove someone's head?

If you really want to get technical about it robots and cobots are required by ANSI/RIA TR R15.606-2016 to have a safety assessment process. With robots things like stopping speed/time/force are all factored in. Also safety of the objects being moved. IE, you can't put a knife sharpening process in an unguarded cobot and have it be considered safe.

[Flycut]

What could I gain from having a robot load op2 in a simple SL-10 lathe vs a cobot?

[CNCAppsJames]

What could I gain from having a robot load op2 in a simple SL-10 lathe vs a cobot?

Tighter integration. Machine condition monitoring of the entire process, reporting, etc.... It's the difference between a old-school flip phone and a smart phone.

IMHO

[YoDoug]

What could I gain from having a robot load op2 in a simple SL-10 lathe vs a cobot?

Industrial robots are usually more accurate and have better repeatability. Can come into play if you second ops have tight chucking requirement for runout/etc. Also industrial robots usually have higher IP ratings and do better with coolant drips and coolant mist collecting on them. A lot of cobots require some sort of covering if they are continually getting coolant dripped on them. The downside is cost and extra integration. Industrial robots are going to require some sort of safety cage or other safety measures. That adds costs. Also the integration will probably require more wiring/interfacing between the robot and machine. 

[YoDoug]

For example, UR robots are not very good with coolant and metal chips. They sell add on covers like below. But those only work so well and only last so long.

[Flycut]

I'll have to look up what all this integration is about.
Do Cobots not have integration?
At the very least I need the Cobot to know when and if the chuck is open or closed.
Is that integration?

[YoDoug]

I'll have to look up what all this integration is about.
Do Cobots not have integration?
At the very least I need the Cobot to know when and if the chuck is open or closed.
Is that integration?

There are levels of integration.

1. On a basic level people will have a pin on the cobot push cycle start and have the cobot open the door. Wait for a long enough to assume the cycle is complete and repeat.

2. In an advanced integration the machine tool will have a robot interface that allows the robot to read/write to a lot of machine function/IO/Autodoor/ETC.

3.The in-between is hijacking wiring. In this type the robots IO will be wired into the machines chuck pedals, cycle start, light tower, etc. If you don't have the budget for the OEM robot interface this is how I would go. It would give you the best process control with the least cost. The downside is the extra wiring can take couple extra days of messing around to get it all figured out. On a side note, if the door is a single door, $300-$500 dollars can get you a pneumatic cylinder, solenoids, buttons, etc to build your own auto door. This is how we do our Okuma mill integrations. We have a low cost PLC that is the central hub. We run manual controls for door open close/ vise/pallet unclamp from the PLC and give the robot inputs to the PLC for the same controls.

From  ten foot view I would want to following Robot-machine controls for a basic lathe DIY integration.

1. Robot access to the light tower for cycle process status. This can be done with some relays.
2. Robot access to the door lock status, again relays.
3. Robot/manual control of door by pneumatic cylinder.
4. Robot control of Chuck open/close. Probably relays also.
5. Robot access to chuck clamp status.
6. Robot control of cyclestart and feedhold.

If you stay budget conscious the hardware for this type of integration can be done for $1000-$2000. Add another $1000+ for end of arm gripper depending on needs. You will also need some sort of infeed trays or carts. If you go industrial robot versus cobot you will need some guarding. You will probably have to spend $3000-$5000 on integration costs that are not the robot purchase. That leaves about $10k of you budget for actual robot. There are a lot of used robots on ebay that are under $10k.

[YoDoug]

Not sure what reach is needed to get inside your lathe but something like this could work.

https://www.ebay.com/p/23055636753?iid=305493063710

This would give more reach for more parts in que.

https://www.ebay.com/p/821212713?iid=286710797153

[YoDoug]

Another thing to look for is a local used industrial machinery scrapper/reseller. The one below is local here in MN. They go around and buy lots of equipment from closing mfg facilities and labs, then resell it. They are a great resource for low cost ancillary items like benches, tables, cylinders, etc. I have used these guys a few times when budget was tight. They are kind of like the equivalent of an auto junk yard for industrial stuff.

https://www.nextdayautomation.com/

[Flycut]

On a side note, if the door is a single door, $300-$500 dollars can get you a pneumatic cylinder, solenoids, buttons, etc to build your own auto door.

When I started I built my own bar feeder with pneumatic cylinders and auxiliary M codes. This can easily be repurposed for the door.
As for the cage, my garage is 24ft square. I could simply put a switch on the man door to stop the robot.
Where trays are concerned I'm thinking of having a round table that turns like a lazy Susan but I haven't figured out the best way to make it turn yet.
It's stating to sound like a robot is the better option after all.

[Flycut]

Not sure what reach is needed to get inside your lathe but something like this could work.

https://www.ebay.com/p/23055636753?iid=305493063710

This would give more reach for more parts in que.

https://www.ebay.com/p/821212713?iid=286710797153

Thanks,
That's awesome.
I don't need much reach.
I plan on putting locating pins on the floor right next to the door and moving the robot away when not needed and then quickly reposition.

[CNCAppsJames]

Just to throw it out there... we have a customer with a Haas VF-2 (IIRC). The machine has an Auto-Door and a UR Cobot.

Anyway, his parts going into the machine are aligned on a Lego base plate and legos...Yes Lego. He figured it out one evening while playing with his kids. The parts he runs in that machine are UHMW and some other plastics.

Just throwing it out there. If doing metal parts, you may not get a ton of durability, but it at least gets you started on a basic design.

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