The "winning" thread

[neurosis]

How is this not a reflection of the people who visit this area?  Not that is needed, but there is even a pack in in -pack it out sign.  If you poop, then it should be off the trail and you either dig a hole or stack some rocks on top.  I always try to pack out any garbage I find on the way.

It is a reflection of the people who visit. But it's also an issue with understaffing. Keep in mind that this is just one of 1000's of trails in Washington State that are having the same issues. When people go up to these places they expect the garbages and bathrooms to be serviced. When they get there, it's too late to plan for having to pack your own shit out.

What's going to end up happening, is all of these places will eventually be closed down.

[gcode]

What's going to end up happening, is all of these places will eventually be closed down.

or the people who actually use them, pay for the upkeep instead of the state forcing people to pay for it
under threat of law.

[neurosis]

Fkn farmers need to pull themselves up by their boot straps and quit asking for socialist hands outs. 

When you listen to a lot of these guys, they did say that they voted for Trump? Elections have consequences? Get ready to start paying even more for produce? 

[neurosis]

or the people who actually use them, pay for the upkeep instead of the state forcing people to pay for it
under threat of law.

These are Federal forest trails. You can't even access the enchantments without winning a Federal lottery to hike up there. People come from all over the Country (and Canada) to hike that area.

That sounds more complicated than it really is. It's more of a reservation that has to be planned in advance. People get lost up there so they keep records of who goes up.

https://www.recreation.gov/permits/233273

[Incogneeto]

or the people who actually use them, pay for the upkeep instead of the state forcing people to pay for it
under threat of law.

Another novel Idea....Volunteer. 

[neurosis]

Another novel idea would have been not to unnecessarily defund the US Forest Service.

At least they weren't able to keep provision in the BBB that sold off the National Forest. That could be considered a win?

[CNCAppsJames]

People have grown so accustomed to "free" shit, they are appalled when the maintenance and upkeep actually costs something.

The bigger question is why do we not demand a better return on our tax dollars?

[Del.]

Smokey Bear was arrested for shitting in the woods.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

The bigger question is why do we not demand a better return on our tax dollars?

We're on the 5th or 6th generation of people born into a world of crushing national debt, where "Welp, that's just the gov't for ya" is the default when we're not in earth shattering global conflict. I don't think it occurs to 90% of people that we can ask something of the oligarchy, and they certainly don't believe they owe us sweet fuck all.

Maybe since the spirit of youthful rebellion has swung to the right of the spectrum, we'll make fiscal responsibility sexy again?

[gcode]

The bigger question is why do we not demand a better return on our tax dollars?

actually, these are not tax dollars
they are dollars borrowed from a foreign power who's ultimate goal is to dominate and conquer us. (Communist China)
our government borrows this money with no thought of how to pay it back.
the only goal is to curry enough favor to get though the next election.

[neurosis]

Maybe since the spirit of youthful rebellion has swung to the right of the spectrum, we'll make fiscal responsibility sexy again?

To believe that, you would have to believe that there is a party of fiscal responsibility.

There's not.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

they are dollars borrowed from a foreign power who's ultimate goal is to dominate and conquer us. (Communist China)

And since US gold reserves are only 845 Billion, there isn't enough real wealth to back any of it up. All western gov's are playing Monopoly with someone else's cash, and we owe it back a little more every time the money printers go BBRRRRR. Sad state of affairs with no end in sight, beyond a full collapse and rebuild where we likely make the same mistakes again. Or we keep pace with our continual descent to techno-feudalism.

[Elmer Fudd]

I get a lot for my tax dollars. One of my favorites is there is this road right in front of my house that will take me pretty much anywhere in these Unitsd States. 

[Incogneeto]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/u-s-added-911-000-fewer-jobs-in-the-year-ended-in-march/ar-AA1McjRX?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=68c0719f409c48c5ba9518bcc079627e&ei=48

[CNCAppsJames]

So... 295 days of it is Biden's Administration and 70 Days are Trump's administration. 

Check.