Trump ally shot in Utah a few minutes ago

[beej]

Pope John Paul II met with his would-be assassin in prison and forgave him
Ronald Reagan publicly forgave Don Hinkley jr
Robert Todd Lincoln wrote a letter to the brother of Wilkes Booth and told him, I hold nothing against your family
RFK jr visited Sirhan Sirhan in prison and advocated for his release
and now Erika Kirk publicly forgives her husband's assassin

Christians are not the same. In fact I would argue that you can measure a person's closeness to Christ by his willingness to forgive.

[neurosis]

Christians are not the same. In fact I would argue that you can measure a person's closeness to Christ by his willingness to forgive.

Is Stephen Miller a Christian? Because he didn't sound very forgiving. 

[beej]

Is Stephen Miller a Christian? Because he didn't sound very forgiving. 

I really don't know much about him, but I stand by what I said. you can measure a person's closeness to Christ by their ability to forgive.

[mowens]

You don't have to be a Christian to have the capacity or willingness to forgive.

[beej]

You don't have to be a Christian to have the capacity or willingness to forgive.

I would love to be proved wrong. If the world becomes more forgiving even as it rejects the teachings of Christ, I will recant my statement.

[mowens]

So, are you saying only Christians have the capacity and willingness to forgive?

[beej]

So, are you saying only Christians have the capacity and willingness to forgive?

I am saying that Christ, through grace, gives us that capacity. I believe that only Christ knows a person's heart. But when I see a person forgive, I see a closeness or a resemblance to Christ and I admire it.

[mowens]

Ok
I just know people with a tremendous capacity for forgiveness who don't necessarily consider themselves Christian.

[beej]

Ok
I just know people with a tremendous capacity for forgiveness who don't necessarily consider themselves Christian.

There are a lot of people on the fence as to whether Christianity is true. If a non-believer wants to hedge his bets, and try to get into heaven if there is one,  he should forgive others, with a simple prayer saying "God, I don't know if you are real, but I offer forgiveness to this person and hope you will reveal yourself to me through it."

See what happens, I bet you will be surprised.

[mowens]

They don't practice forgiveness because they want to get to heaven. They practice forgiveness because they know that the only way to live a life of peace and serenity is to avoiding holding on to resentments and practice acceptance and humility.

[beej]

They don't practice forgiveness because they want to get to heaven. They practice forgiveness because they know that the only way to live a life of peace and serenity is to avoiding holding on to resentments and practice acceptance and humility.

I see. I wonder if they learned forgiveness leads to a life of peace through greek and roman philosophy or or through the philosophers who were influenced by judeo-christian values.

[mowens]

No. They learned it through Bill Wilson and the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[beej]

No. They learned it through Bill Wilson and the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Gotcha!

I wonder where Bill Wilson learned it. Was he an atheist?

[mowens]

Is it really so hard to believe that a non Christian can practice forgiveness?

Also, there are a lot of religious people who don't worry about heaven and hell.

[beej]

Is it really so hard to believe that a non Christian can practice forgiveness?

I would just say that, if you study history, (which, I get, many people don't have the desire, interest or time) you'll see that there was almost no emphasis on it, until christianity came onto the scene. And honestly christians have not always been great at it either. But it is a central tenet of Christianity, maybe THEE central tenet of christianity.

Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, none of them talked about it. It might be more than you care about, but Tom Holland the historian\pilosopher who has spent most of his life as an atheist, recently converted to Christianity when studying the history of the Roman empire. He originally thought that what we, today, call Judeo-Christian values have really always existed. The more he studied, the more he realized almost every thing that we know today that makes us civilized, comes from the teachings of the church and without the church, one of the first things to go will be forgiveness and once that is gone everything else falls apart

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_(Holland_book)