Antifa is a terrorist organization?

[jstell]

give me the crazy emoji if you want. you tell me, mr antifascist. why is Charlie Kirk dead?

because a deranged young man lacking in impulse control had access to a gun and wanted to stand for something?

[Del.]

Trump isn't a Fascist. He's an anomaly!!!

[beej]

Are they really Soros funded like we keep hearing?

I would really need hard evidence before I believed Soros is funding it. I'm no fan of him, but I think Soros is smarter than that.

[Smit]

Since Beej didn't want to do it I'll post this. Check the boxes.

I think the dictionary definition is a good place to start with getting everybody to agree on a definition of fascism.

This is what comes up on DuckDuckGo.

fascism /făsh′ĭz″əm/
noun

    A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

Oppressive, dictatorial control.

A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government; -- opposed to democracy and liberalism.

An authoritarian system of government under absolute control of a single dictator, allowing no political opposition, forcibly suppressing dissent, and rigidly controlling most industrial and economic activities. Such regimes usually try to achieve popularity by a strongly nationalistic appeal, often mixed with racism.

Specifically, the Fascist movement led by Benito Mussolini in Italy from 1922 to 1943.

Broadly, a tendency toward or support of a strongly authoritarian or dictatorial control of government or other organizations; -- often used pejoratively in this sense.

A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on a relationship between business and the centralized government, business-and-government control of the market place, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. Originally only applied (usually capitalized) to Benito Mussolini's Italy.

Or from dictionary.com

(sometimes initial capital letter),  a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Or the Cambridge dictionary

a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control of social and economic life, and extreme pride in country and race, with no expression of political disagreement allowed

[Del.]

OMG. Obama was a fascist.

[Smit]

What I don't know, is anyone who knows anyone who claims to be a member of Antifa.

Is there a hierarchy to this, or is it just a group of like-minded anarchists who search each other out on social media and stage hijacks of legitimate planned protests? Are they really Soros funded like we keep hearing?

Isn't anybody who is against fascism by definition anti fascist?

It is well documented that provocateurs will show up at legitimate protests to stir the pot. And as our esteemed Canadian brother suggests, I'm also sure many of them are planned thru social media. Both the legitimate and violent behaviors.

Soros funding sounds like something cooked up on Fox news or similar sites.

[beej]

Isn't anybody who is against fascism by definition anti fascist?

It is well documented that provocateurs will show up at legitimate protests to stir the pot. And as our esteemed Canadian brother suggests, I'm also sure many of them are planned thru social media. Both the legitimate and violent behaviors.

Soros funding sounds like something cooked up on Fox news or similar sites.

You can project a definition out to extreme borders all over the place. Is someone technically a racist if they poke fun of white people?  Why don't we just stick to what we already know as the meaning for the purpose of an honest discussion.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

Is there a hierarchy to this, or is it just a group of like-minded anarchists who search each other out on social media and stage hijacks of legitimate planned protests? Are they really Soros funded like we keep hearing?

From my understanding, you have very active local leadership who can pinpoint where the protests will occur, or even influence where the protests will occur, this is the facebook tier, and they will present as locally minded activists. Some bigger events are easier to telegraph, but need more manpower, that's when they reach out to another city's groups.

https://www.canadiansra.ca/
https://cospringsantifa.noblogs.org/resources/

The internet is littered with Green Doors, if you will, where you can join groups, and active members will get shoulder taps to move up into the more militant divisions, or recruitment divisions. This is all through Discord, Telegram, anonymous emails, etc. I think you need to be pretty high up to see the overall leadership, even locally. I agree that there is no "Antifa USA General" or something, they like to say "it's a mindset, man" but no, there are small groups everywhere that make up a larger organism - if not an organization.

I don't think there is a very direct Soros funded element, but parts of community organizations are funded that way, and campus groups too. So it's like hopping on a socially aware network of resources to find members or disseminate info. I Have not done much research lately on where the Soros money is flowing at the moment, I"ve been out of the game, so to speak for awhile. You know, working and paying taxes etc.

[Smit]

You can project a definition out to extreme borders all over the place. Is someone technically a racist if they poke fun of white people?  Why don't we just stick to what we already know as the meaning for the purpose of an honest discussion.

Yeah, it's the dictionary's that muck everything up! 

For real, I think if people are wanting to have an honest discussion the words they use should pretty much all mean the same thing regardless of who says them.

Does that sound crazy?

[beej]

Yeah, it's the dictionary's that muck everything up! 

For real, I think if people are wanting to have an honest discussion the words they use should pretty much all mean the same thing regardless of who says them.

Does that sound crazy?

ok fair enough. so there is no difference between Biden who is against fascism and Antifa. I can work with that.

[Smit]

ok fair enough. so there is no difference between Biden who is against fascism and Antifa. I can work with that.

OK, I don't know what that means but it works for me.

[beej]

Since Beej didn't want to do it I'll post this. Check the boxes.

I think the dictionary definition is a good place to start with getting everybody to agree on a definition of fascism.

This is what comes up on DuckDuckGo.

Or from dictionary.com

Or the Cambridge dictionary

this definition is useful

Here are some points I'd like to ask though:

1) what do you do with evidence that seems to contradict whether trump is fascist? Do we disregard them or can we use them like a pro and con list? For example I've never seen a fascist in favor loosening gun control laws, especially after being shot, or a fascist who wanted to de-centralize control over education. just think of a fascist who disagrees so strongly with California but willing to give them control rather than his own federal administration over education

2) Can you imagine fascist who also tend to be racist having with in his cabinet people whom he is accused of disparaging, Would Hitler ever have a Jewis person in his cabinet? ie Kash Patel, Marco Rubio, Scott Bessent

3) I know that there are some points you can make for the pro column. I could make points for the pro column as well about the democrats. Point 1 above might be one of those. or the fact that churches and small gatherings were shut down during covid, or masks were forced to be worn. or truckers who ride alone in their trucks were being forced to get a shot. But here's the thing, I don't think that democrats are fascist, because I can look at the overall evidence and say, yeah, there are some similarities but I still wouldn't call it fascism. Why can't democrats look at the overall evidence when the look at trump?

[Smit]

That definition is easier to interpret in the way you like?

I'm glad I included it then.

[beej]

That definition is easier to interpret in the way you like?

I'm glad I included it then.

I expected a better argument for your case than that.

[Zoffen]

These threads are such a waste of time. No one is going to change their mind about anything based on any information received here.

Ones views, once establish only will change due to extreme trauma in their lives. That's the sad reality we live in.

Time would be better spent staring at a wall for 5 minutes.