What is spirituality?

[mowens]

AA is neither Christian or Muslim.

Does AA, NA, or any of those actually work for people? I feel like most people who go to those either do so because its court ordered, or they're in prison and trying to find programs that improve their chance of good time or parole.

Yes it works. But it doesn't just happen. You have to actually work at it. Also, it is not a cure.

[mowens]

Note to self.  Alcoholism is rampant in the Christian community? 

Alcoholism is rampant in humanity.

You talk about the success rate being low in AA. How do you define success? If you mean someone who quits drinking and is sober until they die, then, yes that rate is low. I know a lot of people who stay sober for multiple years and then relapse and then get sober again. Is that a success? A lot of people do come just get paper signed. But some people come out of desperation. Some people come because they have reached the maximum level of misery they're willing to live with and have decided it will stop one way or another.

AA is neither Muslim or Christian.

[neurosis]

AA is neither Muslim or Christian.

I don't know what that means

You talk about the success rate being low in AA. How do you define success?

This is based on my experience with any addiction and addicts. Usually when people have that epiphany, it doesn't come from something like AA or rehab. If someone doesn't want to quit, they're not going to quit.

I do think that support groups are great to an extent.

[mowens]

Stopping drinking or using turns out to be the easy part. Learning to live and try to be happy while sober is the hard part.

[Del.]

Stopping drinking or using turns out to be the easy part. Learning to live and try to be happy while sober is the hard part.

Exactly. I can quit smoking but I can't stay quit.

[neurosis]

I know so many people who have been helped by AA. I couldn't begin to count them.

btw, you never told me what you thought about this breakdown of CK's debate style

[beej]

btw, you never told me what you thought about this breakdown of CK's debate style

Both of those guys are smarter than I am, but I don't see why the argument Kirk was making there was a good argument in the first place. And I don't see why Rudy's argument is any better.

Let's change the name of the issue to something we could all Agree is terrible ie child sacrifice. Not equating gay marriage to child sacrifice but for the thought experiment I picked something easy to agree against.

Why would pointing out that it didn't happen in history, and then someone else pointing out that "actually it did" make it less abhorrent. I'm just saying that's not how I would have argued it,  but I also don't think that just because Rudy found some forgotten culture that did it, gives it any credibility. But I'm just an old toolmaker.

[neurosis]

but I don't see why the argument Kirk was making there was a good argument in the first place. And I don't see why Rudy's argument is any better.

I'd posted another video along with this one in the Kirk thread. I asked, not because of the subjects they were debating, but because everyone on the right seems to think that Kirk was some kind of genius debater, when in reality, when confronted by people who were prepared and well-educated on the subjects, you find out that Kirk was nothing more than a fire hose of talking points who constantly refused to answer questions directly if at all, then resorted to deflections and whataboutisms when his arguments start to fall apart. 

The other video I posted was Kirk debating a feminist (Tilly Middlehurst). He didn't do well against her either. If you listened to Kirk in the weeks after, he talked as if he'd won that debate. I'm not sure that he understood half of what she was saying to him.

https://youtu.be/GRLV5Is-Pc4?si=Mxsg4QsqF4gUbYCm

[beej]

I'd posted another video along with this one in the Kirk thread. I asked, not because of the subjects they were debating, but because everyone on the right seems to think that Kirk was some kind of genius debater, when in reality, when confronted by people who were prepared and well-educated on the subjects, you find out that Kirk was nothing more than a fire hose of talking points who constantly refused to answer questions directly if at all, then resorted to deflections and whataboutisms when his arguments start to fall apart. 

The other video I posted was Kirk debating a feminist (Tilly Middlehurst). He didn't do well against her either. If you listened to Kirk in the weeks after, he talked as if he'd won that debate. I'm not sure that he understood half of what she was saying to him.

https://youtu.be/GRLV5Is-Pc4?si=Mxsg4QsqF4gUbYCm

who is the genius on the left that, still has not lost a debate?

[Del.]

who is the genius on the left that, still has not lost a debate?

Biden! He answered all the questions.

[Smit]

I'd posted another video along with this one in the Kirk thread. I asked, not because of the subjects they were debating, but because everyone on the right seems to think that Kirk was some kind of genius debater, when in reality, when confronted by people who were prepared and well-educated on the subjects, you find out that Kirk was nothing more than a fire hose of talking points who constantly refused to answer questions directly if at all, then resorted to deflections and whataboutisms when his arguments start to fall apart. 

The other video I posted was Kirk debating a feminist (Tilly Middlehurst). He didn't do well against her either. If you listened to Kirk in the weeks after, he talked as if he'd won that debate. I'm not sure that he understood half of what she was saying to him.

Thou shalt not blaspheme Saint Charlie or the wrath of gawd will fall upon you!! 

Seriously...the more you see of Charlie the less impressive he is.

Some guy who gets paid to "debate" college students? Come on, get a real job!

[beej]

Thou shalt not blaspheme Saint Charlie or the wrath of gawd will fall upon you!! 

Seriously...the more you see of Charlie the less impressive he is.

Some guy who gets paid to "debate" college students? Come on, get a real job!

you sort of bring up an interesting point. Can the left have a hero that they look to and say, I want to be that guy? The reason I ask is because, if you keep progressing, you look at the heroes of old and find something lacking in them. Woodrow Wilson was a know racist, Kennedy was a womanizer, MLK has even been disparaged by some on the left (especially BLM) in the last few years because he advocated for a color-blind society and peaceful protests. Abraham Lincoln was disparaged for executing native Americans and colonization. Progressivism seem to want perfectionism, and perfectionism is always found lacking. I might be wrong on all of this, or maybe just looking too far left, maybe the mainstream Democrat still has heroes, if they are in imperfect. But I wonder, especially with the Democrat Socialists, who do they look up to?

[neurosis]

Seriously...the more you see of Charlie the less impressive he is.

Some guy who gets paid to "debate" college students? Come on, get a real job!

I don't begrudge the guy for making a living arguing for something he believes in. If people are willing to pay him for what he's doing, then good for him? 

But yea. I've seen people compare his debate style to Ben Shapiro. Some of the same tactics probably, but with far less intelligence.

[Smit]

I don't begrudge the guy for making a living arguing for something he believes in. If people are willing to pay him for what he's doing, then good for him? 

Yeah I know, lots of people make a lot of money by being "influencers" but it just seems strange to me.

Having said that, I like to watch travel videos on Youtube, and if the people are able to make money somehow off that, good for them I guess.

But if it's a Facebook or Instagram influencer making money from whatever they're doing I consider that different than somebody who is paid for running around "pwning" college students.

[beej]

Yeah I know, lots of people make a lot of money by being "influencers" but it just seems strange to me.

how are they different than Stephanoupolis?