Nutrition discussion thread

[YoDoug]

There has been a lot of discovery and knowledge learned about the gut biome and how it relates to health in the past decade. One such issue is TMAO and heart disease. Venison is often considered the lean healthy red meat. Joe Rogan goes on and on about elk meat. It turns out they are high in L-carnitine. If you are a big meat eater your gut biome will contain lots of bacteria that in conjunction with your liver turn L-carnitine into TMAO. TMAO is a known contributor to heart disease. Even lean wild red meat is still a big contributor to heart disease.

[neurosis]

Isn't that what a wife or girlfriend is for?

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[Matthew Hajicek]

I ask her while she's swapping parts.

[Smit]

Nutritional studies are kinda like everything else, you can find whatever you want to validate what you want to believe. Here is a link disputing red meat is horrible and another supporting it.

Eggs used to be the worst then they became really good. Saturated fat and cholesterol used to be awful now...not so much.

IMO the most important is moderation.

And yes, we're all gonna die. But the thing is, once you reach 40 and up the chances are good that what you are physically in 5 years is going to be less than what you are now. That is truer the older you get. So if you're sucking wind climbing a single flight of stairs now in 5 or 10 years you are maybe riding a stair lift up those stairs. Or not going upstairs at all.

The reason a person tries to take care of themselves isn't so they can live forever, or really even longer. It's to increase the quality of the rest of your life the best you can.

That can mean different things to different people and that is how it should be.

https://jonnybowden.com/blog/the-carnitine-controversy-what-does-that-new-red-meat-study-really-tell-us/%5B/url">The Carnitine controversy: what does that new "red meat" study really tell us?

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-study-links-l-carnitine-in-red-meat-to-heart-disease-201304176083%5B/url">New study links L-carnitine in red meat to heart disease

[Smit]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=10393 time=1619732052 user_id=57]
I ask her while she's swapping parts.
[/quote]

You don't have to worry about it 'cause your wife is gonna kill you anyway.  

[huskermcdoogle]

As stated before confirmation bias is a real thing... With any study, follow the money and see who paid for the study.  Would anyone in their right mind doing research for a living not cater at least a little to those that pay the bills.....  I mean that's the way to get them to come back right?

I have no problem with someone deciding that they want be a carnivore or a vegan, just don't dare trying to use the government through legislation or policy to decide / limit what I eat.  I will just leave that there.  Don't want to get too fired up.

Overall, I believe that you should eat what makes you feel best / optimal.  For me that's pretty much meat only.  If I keep it simple, and don't overeat (still a problem), I feel great, get too sleep, and generally get through my day with ease.  I will occasionally eat some fresh fruit, or something from the garden if I crave it and the right opportunity comes up.  But overall, it's just too much of a pain in the butt (literally) to make drastic diet changes like that on a whim, so I tend to avoid those situations.

[neurosis]

My Grandma grew her own garden and raised all of her own live stock.

She ate a pretty good mixture of vegetables and meat. She lived to be 100.

[thad]

no offence but it's kinda like when someone goes AA or a reformed smoker

Do you mean like...

Q: How can you tell if someone is vegan?
A: Don't worry, they'll let you know.

FWIW, I never felt like Doug was overbearing or preachy about nutrition. His change of diet has done some good things for him. He's excited about it and wants to share it with his friends. How can you fault a guy for that? Not only that, I always enjoy hearing what Doug has to say.  

[thad]

If I ran a blender at 5 in the morning on my way out to work, I wouldn't have to worry about my diet, my wife would kill me...  

Same....but at 4AM.

[YoDoug]

no offence but it's kinda like when someone goes AA or a reformed smoker

Do you mean like...

Q: How can you tell if someone is vegan?
A: Don't worry, they'll let you know.

FWIW, I never felt like Doug was overbearing or preachy about nutrition. His change of diet has done some good things for him. He's excited about it and wants to share it with his friends. How can you fault a guy for that? Not only that, I always enjoy hearing what Doug has to say.  

FWIW, Here is the reason I am so vocal about diet and nutrition, especially plant based. It Works. I started this journey towards getting healthy a little over two years ago. I was 50Lbs heavier, probably a good 35Lbs of what would be considered overweight. I had high blood pressure and high cholesterol. It had been a couple years since my last blood work, but at the last one my doctor warned me that he would put me on medication if I didn't change. So I started BJJ/MMA training and started watching my diet more closely. In the first year, while still eating a standard American diet, counting calories, and lots of exercise, I lost 40Lbs and my numbers all came down. I felt better than I had in a decade or more. However, it was a lot of work. I loved the training but I was sore all the time. I was weak all the time and felt like I was beating myself up. I suspected nutrition was the key. Lots of research led me to a plant based diet. Since committing to a plant based diet I have shed an extra 10Lbs, but have the most muscle I have ever had. I also have more endurance during long BJJ grappling sessions and my post workout recovery time is massively reduced. For a while I kind of bounced back and forth between eating a plant based diet and eating animal products. When I would stay focused on a plant based diet, after about 3-4 weeks it was like a light switch was turned on. I could feel the difference.

I'll be 48 this summer. In my early 20's I loved action sports. I skateboarded, snowboarded, surfed, BMX, rock climbing, etc. Then I got married, got fat and out shape. I pretty much figured those days were over for me. Now that out kids are older and we finally have some financial freedom, and now that I am healthy again, I am training BJJ, snowboarding, mountain biking, etc. Heck, last month on vacation in FL I went surfing. Last summer I went mountain biking and kayaking in mountains of NorCal. If eating a plant based diet gives me an edge health-wise that allows me to keep enjoying life into my 50's and beyond, then I'll gladly do it.

Not the best pic, but from vacation last month.
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/155416965_809585689962302_4267339295691966156_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=14xjxBF7C_cAX8gRa2T&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&oh=55245860e0052651c8efe849daea8557&oe=60B27616">

[YoDoug]

As far as finding studies to support whatever you want, yes you can. However, as the saying goes, "The Devil is in the details".

Here is a video looking at a few dairy industry studies, funded by the dairy industry, that add abnormal amounts of oils into the vegan diet to skew the effect so the results makes dairy look no worse that a vegan diet. The meat and dairy industries have huge non-profit groups that receive and spend 100's of millions of dollars every year to benefit their sales. This includes funding many studies designed to produce desired results.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-the-dairy-industry-designs-misleading-studies/">https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-th ... g-studies/">https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-the-dairy-industry-designs-misleading-studies/

Just a few thoughts;

 The China Study by Colin Campbell, was one of the largest and longest studies ever done looking at diet and chronic illness. The results showed that the lower the animal product consumption, the lower the instance of chronic illness. Yes there are small sample, short time, studies that meat and dairy industry point to for justification, but you will not find a study of that size and scope that produces favorable results for meat and dairy consumption. https://nutritionstudies.org/the-china-study/">https://nutritionstudies.org/the-china-study/

The work of Dr Esselstyn at the Cleveland clinic. His program has successfully treated and reversed heart disease through a whole foods plant based diets for several decades. There is no other diet (paleo, keto, Atkins, carnivore, etc) that is being used, long term, as treatment by a major hospital for treatment of chronic illness. There are some institutions/doctors pushing keto for type 2 diabetes, but in a few recent studies there is evidence that it is only a valid solution for short term change. It is starting to look like the there are major risk factors to long term keto diets.

[DUM1]

best I ever felt on mostly fruit and vegetable shake diet. Leaned me out feel lighter and more agile.
Fruit vegetable w/ figs and green vibrance  powder in it is a lot of energy for the day.
Then a dinner with low carbs mostly vegetable and small portion of chicken or fish .
strawberry's carrots and blueberry's from my garden , organic celery watermelon and figs green vibrance powder and some flax seed oil .
and yes its the blender at 3;30 - 4 in the morning , which is a pain in the rear, forcing it down half the time because I never really liked anything but coffee in the morning.
But since the heart attack at 53 I figure I would like to make it a bit longer. Got a lot of stuff to do before I go .
I do back slide and have crazy meals about once every week or two, like potatoes au gratin with ham ,or smoke a briskit and some mac n cheese.
As far as before the heart attack I ate well not a fan of processed food or meats , a lot of salads with a steak , chicken or fish.
All home made food no boxed instant dinner stuff no fast food.
 Since about 20 years ago  all that fast food just changed one day and it was all nasty like they all have the same whatever it is in the meat and everything else they serve , pretty much all of it gives me the MCgurgels.
I think Doug is really on to something and appreciate him sharing his enthusiasm and information with us.

[neurosis]

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[Smit]

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You sure crazy amounts of booze consumption doesn't have something to do with that?  

[neurosis]

You sure crazy amounts of booze consumption doesn't have something to do with that?  

Haha.. I can't speak for everyone, but yes and no?  

I've probably spent more time sitting on my patio drinking than I did the previous year.  I also used to walk 4 miles a day after work every day.  I  haven't done that since this started.  I do plan on starting again this summer..  I can tell that my metabolism has taken a big hit this last year.  

I still work out every week.  One of the benefits of having a home gym set up.  At 50, I would imagine that at some point that pull up bar is going to become a place to hang underwear.