Show up acting stupid

[gcode]

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/469048/">https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/469048/

And find out  

[CNCAppsJames]

FA&FO

😆😅🤣😂

[Jeff]

That's awesome!

[Jim at Gentex]

I get where he is coming from, but IMO that is a little over the top for a Pastor.
Not to mention the fact that making overtly political public statements like that could cause his church to lose their 501(c)3 status if they are a registered non-profit.
Not a wise decision on his part.

I am an Elder in my church, so we had to make some very difficult decisions since last January.
We did suspend in-person services for many months during the height of the shutdown period.
During those months we only had online services, and prayer meetings via Zoom.
When our state began easing the restrictions we did decide to start meeting in-person again with social distancing and heightened hygiene awareness.
Our auditorium is plenty big enough for people to spread out and have plenty of empty seats all around them, so we felt like most everyone would feel comfortable with the seating arrangements.

As for masks we have left it up to the individual to decide.
Most have not been wearing them, but a few still do.
I think a neutral position neither encouraging or discouraging mask wearing was the right call for our church, based upon the feedback I have personally received from members I have spoken to.

So far, so good, but if the situation changes drastically we will be prepared to deal with it as it unfolds.

[beej]

[quote="Jim at Gentex" post_id=14982 time=1629998399 user_id=83]
I get where he is coming from, but IMO that is a little over the top for a Pastor.
Not to mention the fact that making overtly political public statements like that could cause his church to lose their 501(c)3 status if they are a registered non-profit.
Not a wise decision on his part.

I am an Elder in my church, so we had to make some very difficult decisions since last January.
We did suspend in-person services for many months during the height of the shutdown period.
During those months we only had online services, and prayer meetings via Zoom.
When our state began easing the restrictions we did decide to start meeting in-person again with social distancing and heightened hygiene awareness.
Our auditorium is plenty big enough for people to spread out and have plenty of empty seats all around them, so we felt like most everyone would feel comfortable with the seating arrangements.

As for masks we have left it up to the individual to decide.
Most have not been wearing them, but a few still do.
I think a neutral position neither encouraging or discouraging mask wearing was the right call for our church, based upon the feedback I have personally received from members I have spoken to.

So far, so good, but if the situation changes drastically we will be prepared to deal with it as it unfolds.
[/quote]

I don't get where he is coming from at all. That man brought up a point worth debating, and he instead answered with threats, which makes me think, that he has no logic behind his beliefs, only politics.  In the past Christians used logic and philosophy to prove their beliefs. So the question is, why do you trust God to defend you from a virus, but not an armed intruder?  Why pack a gun in defense of an armed intruder but bring no defense against a virus.  Now their might be some "rich and beautiful" logic behind it.  But if there is, he doesn't know because he responded with a threat, much like the left does to Ben Shapiro, when he asks a pointed question.

politics has become a religion in and of itself.  If we disagree with what a pastor says, we switch churches. But it is rare for someone to switch political affiliations.  Our political leaders can change our minds much easier than our pastors can. What does that say about us?

[Tim Johnson]

[quote="Jim at Gentex" post_id=14982 time=1629998399 user_id=83]
I get where he is coming from, but IMO that is a little over the top for a Pastor.
Not to mention the fact that making overtly political public statements like that could cause his church to lose their 501(c)3 status if they are a registered non-profit.
Not a wise decision on his part.

I am an Elder in my church, so we had to make some very difficult decisions since last January.
We did suspend in-person services for many months during the height of the shutdown period.
During those months we only had online services, and prayer meetings via Zoom.
When our state began easing the restrictions we did decide to start meeting in-person again with social distancing and heightened hygiene awareness.
Our auditorium is plenty big enough for people to spread out and have plenty of empty seats all around them, so we felt like most everyone would feel comfortable with the seating arrangements.

As for masks we have left it up to the individual to decide.
Most have not been wearing them, but a few still do.
I think a neutral position neither encouraging or discouraging mask wearing was the right call for our church, based upon the feedback I have personally received from members I have spoken to.

So far, so good, but if the situation changes drastically we will be prepared to deal with it as it unfolds.

I don't get where he is coming from at all. That man brought up a point worth debating, and he instead answered with threats, which makes me think, that he has no logic behind his beliefs, only politics.  In the past Christians used logic and philosophy to prove their beliefs. So the question is, why do you trust God to defend you from a virus, but not an armed intruder?  Why pack a gun in defense of an armed intruder but bring no defense against a virus.  Now their might be some "rich and beautiful" logic behind it.  But if there is, he doesn't know because he responded with a threat, much like the left does to Ben Shapiro, when he asks a pointed question.

politics has become a religion in and of itself.  If we disagree with what a pastor says, we switch churches. But it is rare for someone to switch political affiliations.  Our political leaders can change our minds much easier than our pastors can. What does that say about us?
[/quote]

I can see a political leader making a statement but if anyone is changing their mind based on the politicians statement then they aren't doing enough research. As President Reagan said, "Trust but verify".

[Incogneeto]

[quote="Jim at Gentex" post_id=14982 time=1629998399 user_id=83]
I get where he is coming from, but IMO that is a little over the top for a Pastor.
Not to mention the fact that making overtly political public statements like that could cause his church to lose their 501(c)3 status if they are a registered non-profit.
Not a wise decision on his part.

I am an Elder in my church, so we had to make some very difficult decisions since last January.
We did suspend in-person services for many months during the height of the shutdown period.
During those months we only had online services, and prayer meetings via Zoom.
When our state began easing the restrictions we did decide to start meeting in-person again with social distancing and heightened hygiene awareness.
Our auditorium is plenty big enough for people to spread out and have plenty of empty seats all around them, so we felt like most everyone would feel comfortable with the seating arrangements.

As for masks we have left it up to the individual to decide.
Most have not been wearing them, but a few still do.
I think a neutral position neither encouraging or discouraging mask wearing was the right call for our church, based upon the feedback I have personally received from members I have spoken to.

So far, so good, but if the situation changes drastically we will be prepared to deal with it as it unfolds.

I don't get where he is coming from at all. That man brought up a point worth debating, and he instead answered with threats, which makes me think, that he has no logic behind his beliefs, only politics.  In the past Christians used logic and philosophy to prove their beliefs. So the question is, why do you trust God to defend you from a virus, but not an armed intruder?  Why pack a gun in defense of an armed intruder but bring no defense against a virus.  Now their might be some "rich and beautiful" logic behind it.  But if there is, he doesn't know because he responded with a threat, much like the left does to Ben Shapiro, when he asks a pointed question.

politics has become a religion in and of itself.  If we disagree with what a pastor says, we switch churches. But it is rare for someone to switch political affiliations.  Our political leaders can change our minds much easier than our pastors can. What does that say about us?
[/quote]

Maybe The Pastor knows this Guy??

Maybe he has posted before??

Or Maybe he has Family in the Church and they know him?

[Incogneeto]

[quote="Jim at Gentex" post_id=14982 time=1629998399 user_id=83]
I get where he is coming from, but IMO that is a little over the top for a Pastor.
Not to mention the fact that making overtly political public statements like that could cause his church to lose their 501(c)3 status if they are a registered non-profit.
Not a wise decision on his part.

I am an Elder in my church, so we had to make some very difficult decisions since last January.
We did suspend in-person services for many months during the height of the shutdown period.
During those months we only had online services, and prayer meetings via Zoom.
When our state began easing the restrictions we did decide to start meeting in-person again with social distancing and heightened hygiene awareness.
Our auditorium is plenty big enough for people to spread out and have plenty of empty seats all around them, so we felt like most everyone would feel comfortable with the seating arrangements.

As for masks we have left it up to the individual to decide.
Most have not been wearing them, but a few still do.
I think a neutral position neither encouraging or discouraging mask wearing was the right call for our church, based upon the feedback I have personally received from members I have spoken to.

So far, so good, but if the situation changes drastically we will be prepared to deal with it as it unfolds.

I don't get where he is coming from at all. That man brought up a point worth debating, and he instead answered with threats, which makes me think, that he has no logic behind his beliefs, only politics.  In the past Christians used logic and philosophy to prove their beliefs. So the question is, why do you trust God to defend you from a virus, but not an armed intruder?  Why pack a gun in defense of an armed intruder but bring no defense against a virus.  Now their might be some "rich and beautiful" logic behind it.  But if there is, he doesn't know because he responded with a threat, much like the left does to Ben Shapiro, when he asks a pointed question.

politics has become a religion in and of itself.  If we disagree with what a pastor says, we switch churches. But it is rare for someone to switch political affiliations.  Our political leaders can change our minds much easier than our pastors can. What does that say about us?
[/quote]

Sometimes You Guys ( me included) are soo smart.

You're Stoopid.

[CNCAppsJames]

[quote="Jim at Gentex" post_id=14982 time=1629998399 user_id=83]... making overtly political public statements like that could cause his church to lose their 501(c)3 status if they are a registered non-profit.
Not a wise decision on his part.
...
[/quote]
There is a line. No doubt some cross it, however, a Pro-Gun (read pro 2nd Amendment) stance would never garner a loss of 501c(3) status. 501c(3)'s must remain "neutral" in politics but the individuals that may work for said non-profit may speak in a person capacity, just not in a professional one, meaning a church can invite or allow political candidates to speak so long as the opposition is given the same opportunity to speak. So let's say Calvary Chapel Chino Hills allows Larry Elder (far and away the most likely candidate to succeed Gov. Newsome in the Recall Election) to speak, the offer to speak must be extended to the current Governor. The Pastor, he can say " I Jack Hibbs endorse Larry Elder for Governor." He cannot say "Calvary Chapel Chino Hills endorses Larry Elder for Governor". That cannot be said. As long as what is being said is not being said in an "official" capacity, the opinions of the 501(c)3's individual members can be stated anywhere at any time.

All that being said, some churches are intimidated by the threats of their government to revoke their 501(c)3 status so they stay out of the arena/discussion all together. Unfortunately some churches do not have the resources to fight such threats and intimidation so they stay out of the discussion which is EXACTLY where the government wants them.

I've always been of the opinion that if the government doesn't want you to talk about something, that's EXACTLY what you should be talking about. If the government doesn't want you to have a gun, you should have two. If the government doesn't want you to openly debate mask, vaccine, etc... policy, "science", etc... that's exactly what should be openly debated. Imagine if smoking were never openly debated because the "science" was settled??? True science WELCOMES discussion, robust debate, and differing opinions. What we have today in the public square is the polar opposite of "science" and is really best described as propaganda.

[beej]

Sometimes You Guys ( me included) are soo smart.

You're Stoopid.

no doubt that is probably true, but I do want to know the reasoning behind, trusting God to keep his church safe from the virus, but not from an armed intruder.  I may agree with him, if I could hear a good argument for it.

[Jim at Gentex]

501c(3)'s must remain "neutral" in politics but the individuals that may work for said non-profit may speak in a person capacity, just not in a professional one...

That is technically correct, but we know full well that the cancel culture doesn't draw any such subtle distinctions.
Once the court of public opinion gets wind of anything controversial involving a Christian church, there's no stopping it.

Unfortunately some churches do not have the resources to fight such threats and intimidation so they stay out of the discussion which is EXACTLY where the government wants them.
 

Being part of the discussion is one thing, but there is a very fine line a church can cross.
I just think that the 'in-your-face' approach gives the cancel culture all they need to bash you with, whether it is technically correct or not.

Proverbs 15:1 gives us the following bit of wisdom:
"A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."

So when asked the question,
"Is this a gun-free campus as well?", a much better answer would be "No, it is not." rather than "Show up acting stupid and find out..."

What I am saying is that we can be part of the discussion without deliberately antagonizing.

Yes, a church can be in-your-face, loud-and-proud, but I just don't think there is wisdom in that approach.