Policy on discussing wages in the shop

[neurosis]

What is the typical policy for discussing wages in machine shops?

Most places I've worked in the past have had a zero tolerance policy for discussing your wages as it causes too many problems in the shop.

I would think that in a Union shop setting it wouldn't matter as seniority determines your wage, but when your wages is either negotiated or determined by performance, it's a bit more controversial. 

[crazy^millman]

Open door here, but since it is only me myself and I to have the conversation with it can get very heated.   

Every place I was salaried or hourly it was not discussed. I remember being an apprentice about 30 years ago making $8.50 an hour and training the 20 year guys on machines that were making $19-$22 and hour. When I asked the owner why they got paid almost double what I was he said you're apprentice and they are journeymen so they earned it. I would then ask him then why do I have to train them to do the jobs they are doing? Shut up and do your $#%#%@#%#@!% job you ungrateful terd. I would travel to job sites and there were charging $60/hr for me to be there and paying me a whopping $9.50/hr.

[YoDoug]

I can't think of anywhere that I have worked, including teenage jobs, that would allow wage discussion. In my experience it is usually younger employees at lower wages that try to discuss wages. I always tell them to consider the other side of the equation. When they get a little older, have more experience, and are making more money do they want to deal with the issues of everyone discussing their wage then? Your wage is an agreement between you and your employer, not your coworkers.

[champshire]

No set rules here, but we all have a general respect for each other not to ask (4 of us total). I have always looked at it as what I make is between myself and the owner. If I don't like it, I can find another job, or improve my skill set. My wages are determined by me this way. If Joe makes more, good for him. I need to be more like Joe.

[YoDoug]

As I have gotten older I have started to look at wages in a different light.

First is the value proposition. How much value do I bring to my employer. I find this especially effective for smaller businesses. If you can show demonstrated value/earnings as a direct result of your work you will have an easier time negotiating a higher wage. It is not just skill, but how you apply that skill. In a metaphor, if you are a high end 5x machine doing simple 2.5D work, are you really bringing 5x value to your employer.

Second, this is semi tied to the first one. Wages are negotiated. Can you effectively negotiate for the wage you deserve? If you just wait around for it to happen or just accept whatever they decide without demonstrating your value, you won't always get what could be had.

[CNCAppsJames]

In all the machine shops except for the ONE union shop I worked in, discussing wages was STRONGLY discouraged if not outright prohibited.

I believe co-workers talking about each other's wages does nothing but create the potential for animosity because of the extrordinarily high degree of subjectivity in the calculus.

Personally, I couldn't care less what other people make. It's none of my business. Myself, I make what I make and I believe I am fairly compensated for the services I provide my employer which  at the end of the day all that truly matters. If someone wants to know how much I make, depending on who they are, what their relationship is to me, how public the discussion is, I may or may not choose to disclose it.

JM2CFWIW YMMV

[Flycut]

At times some people try to broach the subject with me but I change the subject.
I prefer not to know. I'm sure some people make more than I believe they deserve but that's none of my business.
I'm sure there is plenty of talk between them.

[JParis]

Can you effectively negotiate for the wage you deserve?

Used to say this to my wife all the time..."Just becasue that's what they're offering, it doesn't mean you HAVE to take it" either try to negotiate or turn down the offer and keep looking.

[neurosis]

Personally, I couldn't care less what other people make. It's none of my business. Myself, I make what I make and I believe I am fairly compensated for the services I provide my employer which  at the end of the day all that truly matters.

This is how I've always felt.   If someone comes in and negotiates better wages, good for them. If I feel underpaid, I'll let them know.  It's none of my business what everyone else gets paid.

[CNCAppsJames]

I would think that in a Union shop setting it wouldn't matter as seniority determines your wage...

I worked for Cummins Engine Company at their Diesel ReCon plant in Santa Fe Springs, California. We were IAM and we had some Teamsters that worked in "stores" where inventory was kept.

There were tiers or "Labor Grades". There were a few components that went into the Labor Grade you fit in. Now, I worked there from 1/91 to I think 1/94 or somewhere in that range. My meory is a touch fuzzy but I'll do my best to explain it. Back to labor grades... There were 6. We had the following departments;

• Teardown
• Maintenance
• QC
• Rod Line
• Head Line
• Block Department
• Lube Pump
• Accessory Drive
• Air Compressor
• Engine Line
• Dyno
• Stores

Maintenance, Stores, and Dyno were the highest labor grade and the difference in wage (because all wages were published) was like $9.00/hr from top to bottom. In order to make the top wage in a given labor grade you had to be in the labor grade for a specified amount of time. My dad was the Maintenance Lead. He was making I think $18.50-ish (in 1995 when they closed our facility). He got an extra $0.50 for being a lead I think.

Labor Grade 1 was basically a probationary labor grade. I want to say it was like $8.50/hr.
Labor Grade 2 was around $9.50-$10.50
Labor Grade 3 was around $10.75-$11.50
Labor Grade 4 was around $11.75 to $12.50
Labor Grade 5 was around $12.75 to $14.00
Labor Grade 6 was around $14.25 to $18.00

It was all posted WHO made what. The only way to move up in labor grade was to move departments. Moves were awarded 100% by seniority with ZERO bearing on experience given.

[BrianP.]

It's against the law to prohibit wage discussion.

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages

That being said I believe that if you're not happy with what you make you either negotiate or find a new job. You don't say "well so and so makes". You get it on your own merit and skills.

Quick story. Young guy here hacked into my personal info. When the manager before retired he never changed his password. Kid (27) new the password and was able to gain access to some of the payroll records. He found out what I was making and told them he could do everything I could and should get the same wage. While he is very good he does not know what I know. When I got called on the carpet to ask if I had told him I said absolutely not. We found out the old bosses computer had been accessed 40 times before 7:00. I wanted him fired. Instead they gave him a raise to what I am making. Pissed me off the piece of chit got a huge raise off of my 40 years of hard work and sacrifice.

[CNCAppsJames]

They should have fired his young inexperienced ass for unauthorized access.

[neurosis]

Young guy here hacked into my personal info

This is 'sorta' how this came up. 

Nobody hacked anything.  We have an employee who maintains our MFG software. He has access to all of the personal information in the shop. "Somehow" word started getting around how much everyone was making and it's caused some temper tantrums out on the floor.  . 

I've had a couple of people try to talk to me about it and I tell everyone the same thing. I don't want to get involved in shop gossip.  When the wage issue comes up, and it has in the past, I always tell people that it's not going to do any good to complain to me. Go tell the guy that signs the checks. 

[TSmcam]

At one place I worked (a large place by our standards), a spreadsheet accidentally got emailed out to everyone listing everyones annual salaries.

That sure created a few tense scenarios between various employees. Considering they were paying certain people recruited from overseas far more than local people doing the same work at the same skill level.

Thats why I prefer it when I am working for myself, by myself. LOL

[neurosis]

It's against the law to prohibit wage discussion.

So it's against the law to prohibit an employee from talking about their wages, but what about an employee talking about someone elses wages to a different person?