War in Venezuela

[CNCAppsJames]

"Why Venezuela?"

Valid question. I personally think it's a few things;  Venezuela used to be one of the most economically vibrant nations in the region, today it is the polar opposite of that.
The nation is resource rich and extraction poor.
The nation is politically unstable.
The nation DOES serve as a hub for narcotics traffic... though there is robust debate on just how much actually flows from there.
Unstable nations in that region DO have a negative impact on the US from an immigration standpoint. I think if we can do things that keeps those people there as opposed to streaming across our borders, it at the very least deserves further analysis.  We have way too many poor people from south and central america here already.  Our own resources are strained past the limit of sustainability.
In terms of nations being ripe for takeover from more powerful nations, Venezuela is pretty ripe. Letting China take it over would be untenable IMHO.

That's just my observations.

[neurosis]

Venezuela used to be one of the most economically vibrant nations in the region, today it is the polar opposite of that.

I wonder why that is? How much did the US have to do with sinking that Country economically? Why do they have to rely on drugs for money when they have one of the largest oil reserves on earth?

In terms of nations being ripe for takeover from more powerful nations, Venezuela is pretty ripe. Letting China take it over would be untenable IMHO.

True. Is this an actual concern at this point? We don't seem to want to "take them over". We want to plant a US friendly government. As per typical US interventionism.

[beej]

If you just think of it in terms of strategy it makes more sense.

so you can look at it in 2 ways:

The sinking ship strategy. in this strategy you have a sinking ship with several holes. if you want to save the ship the most obvious thing is plug the biggest hole first. and that buys you some time to start plugging the small holes. It's not a bad strategy in and of itself for certain situations. (A lot of people try to apply this strategy to get out of debt and are never able to.)

then there is the low hanging fruit strategy, where you eliminate the easy problems first and then use those gains to put pressure on the harder fought battles. the gains start to snowball. This is for lack of a better term, the Dave Ramsey method of eliminating debt. And I think that a lot of great financial minds use this method, and Trump definitely does. you pay off the easy bills first, then use the money that was going to those bills to pay off the next easier one until you have freed up enough resources to pay off the biggest bills.

Militaries use this method to make in-roads almost exclusively. They never go after the toughest battles first, they look for small incremental gains to put pressure on the strong holds.

most of the drugs coming into this country are coming through mexico. nobody would dispute that. But it is also a lot more complex problem to solve. we share a border, there are trade considerations, etc.

Venezuela by comparison is low hanging fruit and easier to fix, they have no air defense, the people are already wanting to topple the dictator, they've voted for that several times. they are rich in resources suitable for trade. And so if we make them the example to other nations, it puts pressure on other countries to get in line.

I'm not saying that this is good or bad strategy, I'm just saying this is how Trump seems to operate.

[Jeff]

I wonder why that is?

Socialism.

[mowens]

I wonder why that is?

Hugo Chavez

[beej]

I wonder why that is? How much did the US have to do with sinking that Country economically? Why do they have to rely on drugs for money when they have one of the largest oil reserves on earth?

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/why-did-venezuelas-economy-collapse

Venezuela's demise was largely driven by domestic economic policies, although sanctions have played a role more recently. Here, we explore the various factors that have contributed to the dramatic impoverishment of a country that was the richest in Latin America as recently as the 1970s.
Before the collapse (1999 to 2013): bad macroeconomic policy

Presidents Hugo Chavez (1999-2013) and Nicolas Maduro (2013-present) implemented exactly the wrong kind of macroeconomic policy during the 2000s and early 2010s when Venezuela's economy was booming due to the global commodity 'supercycle' – a prolonged period of high and rising prices of grain, metal, oil and gas.

Government spending was deeply pro-cyclical. Instead of saving at least some money for bad times during the good times – as Norway, Saudi Arabia and virtually all other oil exporters have done – the Venezuelan government ran double-digit fiscal deficits as the economy boomed. Government spending far outpaced income from taxes and other revenues.

To finance these unnecessary shortfalls, they raised the external debt sixfold by saddling the state-owned oil company and government with over $100 billion in obligations.

The country also became increasingly reliant on the central bank printing money after gutting its independence, a dangerous monetary policy. A central bank printing money to finance government deficits is highly inflationary. It works as a tax on savings and wages via higher consumer prices, disproportionately affecting the poor.

Government spending during the oil boom was extremely inefficient. Subsidised gasoline in Venezuela was not just the cheapest in the world but often virtually free. This led to an estimated 100,000 barrels of petrol worth over $10 billion per year being smuggled across the border to Brazil and Colombia each day, where it could be resold at a profit.

Electricity subsidies were also vast, leading to losses and underinvestment in the sector. In total, subsidies are estimated to have cost over 10% of GDP in some years, accounting for over half of the fiscal deficits.

At the same time, the all-important oil industry was starved of investment funds and badly mismanaged as technical experts were replaced with political allies. Oil production in fields with high-quality crudes operated by the national oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA), fell rapidly.

These losses were masked by production gains in lower-quality fields operated by joint ventures with foreign oil companies. As such, the profits and sustainability of the country's largest export were undermined, with overall production falling from around three million barrels per day (mbpd) at the turn of the century to 2.3 mbpd before the crisis began in 2014.

[neurosis]

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/why-did-venezuelas-economy-collapse

I'll read that in a bit. Does it mention US embargos on Venezuela and any Country who does business with them?

[beej]

I'll read that in a bit. Does it mention US embargos on Venezuela and any Country who does business with them?

Yes, and the fact that Obama and Trump, Canada and the EU were in agreement that those sanctions were necessary.

[Newbeeee™]

We don't seem to want to "take them over". We want to plant a US friendly government. As per typical US interventionism.

Same

[CNCAppsJames]

I wonder why that is? How much did the US have to do with sinking that Country economically? Why do they have to rely on drugs for money when they have one of the largest oil reserves on earth?

True. Is this an actual concern at this point? We don't seem to want to "take them over". We want to plant a US friendly government. As per typical US interventionism.

I don't know if we had anything to do with their current situation or not. The people voted in communism and here we are. From an outsider's perspective, the country nationalized everything and did not have anywhere near the prerequisite abilities to manage all the things after they kicked everyone out.

We DO intervene for too often and more often than not, for the wrong reasons, but China is exploiting every troubled nation's status on the planet. THEY want to be THE global power. We've ceded them Africa where nearly all the rare earth minerals on the planet are. THAT is going to bite us in the ass hard, and we may never recover from that. I think Venezuela with it's strategic oil reserves is something we have no other choice but to pay attention.

You can vote your way into communism, but you have to shoot your way out. That is an undeniable fact.

[neurosis]

Yes

Hey, sounds like the US? 

"the Venezuelan government ran double-digit fiscal deficits as the economy boomed. Government spending far outpaced income from taxes and other revenues." 

" A central bank printing money to finance government deficits is highly inflationary. It works as a tax on savings and wages via higher consumer prices, disproportionately affecting the poor."

[Newbeeee™]

The people voted in communism and here we are.

Q
When UK lord malloch brown was engulfed in the vote rigging, what country was he involved with?

ChatGPT said:
The country was Philippines.
Reuters
+2
en.wikipedia.org
+2

You said:
Any link to Venezuela too?


ChatGPT said:
Yes — there is documented connection between Lord Mark Malloch-Brown and Smartmatic, and that company has longstanding ties to Venezuela.
Just Security
+2
context-cdn.washingtonpost.com
+2

Smartmatic — the firm whose board/chairmanship included Malloch-Brown — provided electronic voting systems to Venezuela starting in 2004, for the referendum under Hugo Chávez.
The Guardian
+2
context-cdn.washingtonpost.com
+2

Smartmatic continued to be involved (directly or via software licensing) in Venezuelan elections until at least 2017.
Wikipedia
+2
El Estímulo
+2

In 2017 the company publicly accused Venezuelan election authorities of manipulating turnout data, then claimed to withdraw — but audits suggest its software was still used in 2017 and 2018 elections.
Wikipedia
+2
AOL
+2

[gcode]

"Why do they have to rely on drugs for money when they have one of the largest oil reserves on earth?"

Venezuela has huge oil reserves but their oil production is a fraction of what it could be.
They nationalized the oil companies decades ago and poor management and massive corruption have hamstrung
output ever since.

also

Venezuela used to be the richest country in South America. Hugo Chavez and his successor have destroyed the economy.
8 to 10 million Venezuelans have fled the country, many of them winding up as illegal immigrants in the US
A lot of them are living hand to mouth in Ecuador. Peru and Colombia, destabilizing those countries as well.

I think a  big part of Trump's strategy is to remove Maduro from power. If the current regime can be removed
and Venezuela gets back on it's feet many  Venezuelans in the US and elsewhere will go home.
That will be good for the US and all of South America.

[CNCAppsJames]

A healthy Venezuela is in EVERY nation in South, Central and North America's best interests. 

[Rstewart]

I wonder why that is? How much did the US have to do with sinking that Country economically? Why do they have to rely on drugs for money when they have one of the largest oil reserves on earth?

2000% inflation, socialism is fucking expensive in the end