Healthy recipie thread - any interest in starting one?

[RobertELee]

1. What veggie societies exist and how much do they spend lobbying and funding studies? That data is available for meat and dairy.
2. What studies have I completely denied. From what I see here, I'm the only one posting links to studies to back up my claims. The meat eaters never post studies to support their claims. They just dismiss the ones I post.

As to listening to an opposing view, I do sometimes, but it is hard when you hear them spewing outright lies or they are just passing along mis-information they heard. I watched a video last night from some influencers that call themselves the carnivore couple. She listed a study that looked at LDL levels in patients while hospitalized after having a heart attack. A large portion of the patients had moderate or even low LDL. She claimed this means LDL is not valid at predicting issues. If you actually read the paper, the authors say other markers, IN ADDITION, to LDL should be considered. Furthermore, a second group of researchers questioned why that was so they did a follow up study and went back through medical records for those people that had low LDL after a heart attack. They found that in previous tests most of those people had high LDL levels. they then studied and found the actual physical mechanism that lowers LDL after a heart attack. Yet the Couple was on their youtube pushing carnivore diets because they were misinformed. Almost every time I listen to an opposing view I see/hear cherry picking of data and general dismissing of health statistics.

Another great example of misinformation is the understanding of type 2 diabetes. Type 2 comes from an insulin resistance. That happens when there is too much saturated fat is the system. The fat breaks down into free radicals and other compounds that end up blocking insulin receptors. The results is Glucose levels that are too high. The low carb/keto people claim sugar is the culprit and if you just eat more saturated fats and less sugars you'll be fine. While this may help control glucose levels, it doesn't fix the cause. This is akin to having a slow bathtub drain so you just run the water at slower rates rather than fixing the drain. More misinformation.

Go back a decade ago, and I was the meat eater making stupid comments, dismissing studies, making claims like people have different body types so those studies are irrelevant for me. I was in complete denial while being 50 lbs overweight and in line for prescribed statins and bP meds. Then I decided to "look at the other side" as you asked. My eyes were opened and I saw how mislead the majority of society has been over the last 50 years when it comes to nutrition. I also learned how much money and influence big food has on that misinformation.

[YoDoug]

Definitely at first. Until you get used to all the beans and all the fiber you get pretty gassy. After a while you go back to normal.

[mowens]

2. What studies have I completely denied. From what I see here, I'm the only one posting links to studies to back up my claims. The meat eaters never post studies to support their claims. They just dismiss the ones I post.

I think you'll find the article I linked to has their sources noted.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with being vegan if that's your choice. There is also nothing wrong with eating meat in moderation, if that's your choice. Doing anything to excess usually ends badly.

I was only disputing your statement that humans weren't designed to eat meat. I was only doing that because I'm a semi-autistic, OCD asshole.

I don't  like beans, for which my coworkers are eternally grateful. I have enough gas. If I could attach a well head to my ass I could make a fortune.

[YoDoug]

I think you'll find the article I linked to has their sources noted.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with being vegan if that's your choice. There is also nothing wrong with eating meat in moderation, if that's your choice. Doing anything to excess usually ends badly.

I was only disputing your statement that humans weren't designed to eat meat. I was only doing that because I'm a semi-autistic, OCD asshole.

You did link to a study, and yes I dismissed it because it reads as they are "looking" for evidence they can claim fits their beliefs'. They talk about teeth and gut size and composition, but do so in comparing one group of ancestors to another. They completely ignore the fact that modern day humans have guts size/comp and teeth that resemble those of herbivores. This is a massive contradiction. If we evolved from 250,000 years of meat eating as they claim, then why do we not resemble other carnivorous animals. Or alternatively, if we were created by God to eat meat, then why do we not have the teeth, mouth size, gut size, gut comp, etc that other meat eaters do. They also look at "cut marks on ancient bones and say they mean man used tool to cut up the animals to eat. While that shows a high possibility of eating meat, it still provides no explanation or answers to the physiological questions I posed.

As for you can eat meat and still be healthy, yes you can. You can drink small amounts of antifreeze and not die. You can drink alcohol, etc. That doesn't mean those specifically good or bad for health. The human body is great at finding nutrients and processing all kinds of food. However there are also ill effects from many of those foods.

My point when I push vegan diets and post studies is to hopefully to get people to start look at health as a trajectory instead of a state. Rarely do people stay in the same health state over time. What matters is the trajectory. Diet is the number one thing we can do to change that trajectory. Exercise is probably number two. There is great data showing the progression of artery plaque build up and associated diseases by age in America. Different people may be at different stages of that but the thing that is most consistent is the trajectory. For most people it is not if you will have health issues from clogged and hardened artery/heart, it is when you will have those issues. The same goes for Type 2 Diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans are considered pre-diabetic. They can choose to change the trajectory of that, but very few will stay in that same state of being prediabetic.

[Del.]

This whole thing started when our parents said " Eat your vegetables "!

[Tim Johnson]

This whole thing started when our parents said " Eat your vegetables "!

My mother tried that with me with cooked spinach. She told me I couldn't leave the table until the spinach was eaten. About 2:am she woke me up, told me to go to bed and never tried that again.

[MIL-TFP-41]

1. Red meat is a known cancer agent, as well as dairy.

2. One of dozens of large scale meta-studies that show switching to fake meats reduces chronic disease and all-cause mortality rates. https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-023-03093-1

your study is bullshit and you are too vested in your opinion to see it. "Fake meat" has been around for how long? 10 years or so? And you are going to try to convince people to change their lifestyle based on very short term evidence? Short term evidence showed that the covid vax had a 99% efficacy rate. Lots of studies show that the vax works. Yet you choose not to believe those studies, yet you believe this one. 

Anything that has to be processed in a factory before it makes its way to my plate can go fuck off. This includes fake meat, processed meat, or any processed food. They can all go fuck off.

[YoDoug]

your study is bullshit and you are too vested in your opinion to see it. "Fake meat" has been around for how long? 10 years or so? And you are going to try to convince people to change their lifestyle based on very short term evidence? Short term evidence showed that the covid vax had a 99% efficacy rate. Lots of studies show that the vax works. Yet you choose not to believe those studies, yet you believe this one. 

Anything that has to be processed in a factory before it makes its way to my plate can go fuck off. This includes fake meat, processed meat, or any processed food. They can all go fuck off.

How about you provide a study showing fake meats cause cancer. Otherwise your opinion is just that, opinion. Sounds like the big meat and dairy industry campaigns have done a good job convincing you processed foods are the bad guy and they are good. I'm in the camp that they both have unhealthy aspects to them. You can eat a whole foods diet that is heavy in meat and dairy and scientifically and statistically that puts you at higher risk for chronic illness at all cause mortality than eating a vegan diet that includes some fake meats.

That being said I will agree fake meats are processed and that in itself leads to unhealthy foods. However the point of this study was that the saturated fats, cholesterol, and cancer causing proteins in meat are still worse than processed fake meat.

[mowens]

You did link to a study, and yes I dismissed it because it reads as they are "looking" for evidence they can claim fits their beliefs'.

Really? Yet, that article you linked to didn't do the same thing?

That article was by Springer Nature. Here's what Wikipedia says about the company.

"Springer Nature is a signatory of the SDG Publishers Compact,[23][24] and has taken steps to support the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) in the publishing industry.[25][26][27] These include becoming carbon neutral as of 2020,[26] organizing its publications into 17 SDG-related content hubs,[28][29] and launching thematic journals such as Nature Climate Change, Nature Energy, Nature Sustainability,[30] Nature Food, Nature Human Behaviour, Nature Water and Nature Cities (appearing 2024).[31] Springer's journal Environment, Development and Sustainability was one of six out of 100 journals to receive the highest possible "Five Wheel" impact rating[32] from the SDG Impact Intensity™ journal rating system, based on an analysis of data from 2016-2020 that assessed relevance to the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).[33][34]"

Did you know that Impossible Meat uses a soy protein combined with genetically modified yeast to achieve that meat taste? It also uses coconut oil that has been chemically treated to remove the smell, as well as other highly processed ingredients.

[YoDoug]

Did you know that Impossible Meat uses a soy protein combined with genetically modified yeast to achieve that meat taste? It also uses coconut oil that has been chemically treated to remove the smell, as well as other highly processed ingredients.

I'm not claiming that Impossible or Beyond are healthy. I am saying they have been shown in studies to be less detrimental to health than the real thing. There is a recent study out that shows this again. It is short term. The study took two groups and fed them two meals a day. for two weeks they ate fake burgers/chicken/eggs/sausage. Then for two weeks they ate the real thing. They were switched between diets multiple times. Every time they switched diets within a week their cholesterol, A1C, Inflammatory markers, etc shot up on the real meat diet. When they went to the fake stuff those numbers all came down. When the numbers were high the ranges would statistically put them at high risk for heart disease, Diabetes, etc if they continued to eat that way. Yes, a short term test doesn't show what kind of ill effects could come from the highly processed fake meat, but it did show that it was not as bad as real meat from known proven data.

It's like you guys just won't admit what the overwhelming body of science and human health statistics show about meat and dairy on human health, specifically the links to disease and higher all cause mortality. Then in the next statement you say those fake meats could give you cancer. One of those is proven, the other is speculative.

[neurosis]

I'm not claiming that Impossible or Beyond are healthy. I am saying they have been shown in studies to be less detrimental to health than the real thing.

Sounds like the argument made for being vaccinated?   

[neurosis]

Just ignore me, doug.  I"m always interested in hearing about better ways to eat.  I have a horrible diet.

[Incogneeto]

And since you have All requested my Input and I am Revered on this Forum as "A Legend".


I Say............


"Dogpile on Doug" !!!!!!  

[Incogneeto]

My Opinion.....

The Man has made the choice to alter his previous lifestyle for his health......Kudos.

It's working for him.

He is sharing it with you......Kudos.

The studies on either side....Meh.

I would ask Doug the difference in waking up each Day?

How do you Feel.? Better or worse.?

I feel like shit every morning.

At Least Neuro and I are looking for alternatives.

[Tim Johnson]

You did link to a study, and yes I dismissed it because it reads as they are "looking" for evidence they can claim fits their beliefs'. They talk about teeth and gut size and composition, but do so in comparing one group of ancestors to another. They completely ignore the fact that modern day humans have guts size/comp and teeth that resemble those of herbivores. This is a massive contradiction. If we evolved from 250,000 years of meat eating as they claim, then why do we not resemble other carnivorous animals. Or alternatively, if we were created by God to eat meat, then why do we not have the teeth, mouth size, gut size, gut comp, etc that other meat eaters do. They also look at "cut marks on ancient bones and say they mean man used tool to cut up the animals to eat. While that shows a high possibility of eating meat, it still provides no explanation or answers to the physiological questions I posed.

As for you can eat meat and still be healthy, yes you can. You can drink small amounts of antifreeze and not die. You can drink alcohol, etc. That doesn't mean those specifically good or bad for health. The human body is great at finding nutrients and processing all kinds of food. However there are also ill effects from many of those foods.

My point when I push vegan diets and post studies is to hopefully to get people to start look at health as a trajectory instead of a state. Rarely do people stay in the same health state over time. What matters is the trajectory. Diet is the number one thing we can do to change that trajectory. Exercise is probably number two. There is great data showing the progression of artery plaque build up and associated diseases by age in America. Different people may be at different stages of that but the thing that is most consistent is the trajectory. For most people it is not if you will have health issues from clogged and hardened artery/heart, it is when you will have those issues. The same goes for Type 2 Diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans are considered pre-diabetic. They can choose to change the trajectory of that, but very few will stay in that same state of being prediabetic.

Primates teeth are similar to human teeth and most of them eat meat.