Trump may start a new political party

[Del.]

Whew that was close. I had 13.

[beej]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=4296 time=1611270026 user_id=57]

just one question, are the people who destroyed the Oregon Democratic headquarters, last night, fascists or antifascists?

Here's a cheat sheet so you can check for yourself:

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt
Spring 2003
Free Inquiry magazine

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html">https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
[/quote]

https://www.slader.com/discussion/question/who-was-dr-lawrence-britt-and-how-is-he-connected-with-fascism/">https://www.slader.com/discussion/quest ... h-fascism/">https://www.slader.com/discussion/question/who-was-dr-lawrence-britt-and-how-is-he-connected-with-fascism/
Lawrence W. Britt is not a doctor in any field but a novelist who compiled fourteen points which he believes define a Fascist regime. He is a novelist, with no formal training in political science or history and so his views on fascism should be viewed objectively and as an opinion rather than as fact or as a definition. He is widely known for using rhetoric to equate the modern Republican party with fascism and his work is largely deemed to be political opinion rather than analysis or study.

[Matthew Hajicek]

https://www.slader.com/discussion/question/who-was-dr-lawrence-britt-and-how-is-he-connected-with-fascism/">https://www.slader.com/discussion/quest ... h-fascism/">https://www.slader.com/discussion/question/who-was-dr-lawrence-britt-and-how-is-he-connected-with-fascism/
Lawrence W. Britt is not a doctor in any field but a novelist who compiled fourteen points which he believes define a Fascist regime. He is a novelist, with no formal training in political science or history and so his views on fascism should be viewed objectively and as an opinion rather than as fact or as a definition. He is widely known for using rhetoric to equate the modern Republican party with fascism and his work is largely deemed to be political opinion rather than analysis or study.

Right, let's go to Miriam Webster then.

fascism noun

fas·​cism |  ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm  also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Definition of fascism
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality
— J. W. Aldridge

Sure sounds like Trump and his followers to me.

[YoDoug]

Just a couple of thoughts about Fascism;

1. Nationalism isn't always a bad thing. Citizens should feel pride for their nation and want to see policy that keeps their nation successful and strong among the world.

2. The racism/sexism/etc arguments are just the same old race card playing tactics of the left.

3. Rampant cronyism and corruption are equally red or blue. It just changes which group of rich people benefit.

4. Liberals are the group that wants to oppress free speech and debate. They are the party of Cancel Culture that cancels anyone they can that disagrees with them.

5. Fraudulent elections are the result of liberal election policies. Conservatives want fair but stronger election laws that ensure only legal votes are cast. Liberals oppose measures like voter ID laws, again playing the race card in doing so.

6. controlled mass media, while the liberal politicians don't have state level control over the media, they don't need to because the media is a defacto extension of their PR.

7. Supremacy of the military, the only difference is the R's celebrate this while the Liberals still play nation building and warmongering to the benefit of their crony capitalist defense donors. The Libs pretend it is different somehow.

IMO, the Fascism defining list can be split equally between both parties these days.

[gcode]

centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

seriously ?

severe economic  regimentation
Trump burned miles and miles of .guv red tape while he was in office

forcible suppression of opposition
doesn't that sound exactly like Big Tech/Dem's crushing our efforts to investigate election fraud
doesn't that sound exactly like 4 years of weaponized Federal agencies in league with the Dem's
trying to depose a legally elected president
doesn't that sound exactly like the Dem's black lists and calls for deprogramming and reeducation camps

social regimentation
that sounds exactly like liberal contempt for fly over county and "deplorables"

The Dem's need to take a long hard look in the mirror before they start throwing the word fascism around

[Matthew Hajicek]

Just a couple of thoughts about Fascism;

1. Nationalism isn't always a bad thing. Citizens should feel pride for their nation and want to see policy that keeps their nation successful and strong among the world.

Nationalism is when the nation and the party are put before the people.  Anyone disagreeing with the party or the leader is labeled as a traitor and cast out.  This was Trumps modus operandi.

2. The racism/sexism/etc arguments are just the same old race card playing tactics of the left.

Bullshit.  Trump actively courted and supported white supremacist groups.

3. Rampant cronyism and corruption are equally red or blue. It just changes which group of rich people benefit.

Present on both sides, yes, but far worse under Trump.  He filled the government with friends and family members who had no qualifications for their jobs.  He fired anyone he could who dared disagree with him and replaced them with someone loyal.

4. Liberals are the group that wants to oppress free speech and debate. They are the party of Cancel Culture that cancels anyone they can that disagrees with them.

Trump cheered and encouraged the use of violence and force against peaceful protesters and the media.  He also attempted to repeal section 230 to punish those who spoke out against him, and to prevent them from being able to do so again.

5. Fraudulent elections are the result of liberal election policies. Conservatives want fair but stronger election laws that ensure only legal votes are cast. Liberals oppose measures like voter ID laws, again playing the race card in doing so.

There is some truth in this, but for the most part objections were only made after it became clear that Trump had lost.  Before the election Trump expressed confidence in the integrity of the voting system.

6. controlled mass media, while the liberal politicians don't have state level control over the media, they don't need to because the media is a defacto extension of their PR.

There are essentially two different, non-overlapping medias.  Each party has its own truth, which defines the opposing party and media as liars and crazies.  Anyone who watches ANY media cannot participate in a rational discussion of politics.

7. Supremacy of the military, the only difference is the R's celebrate this while the Liberals still play nation building and warmongering to the benefit of their crony capitalist defense donors. The Libs pretend it is different somehow.

This one, you're right, doesn't really apply under Trump.  He called those who served and died in the military "losers" and "suckers".

IMO, the Fascism defining list can be split equally between both parties these days.

Both parties are clearly authoritarian, and therefore unamerican.  This is why for the nation to survive we must eliminate the two party system.

[mowens]

"and forcible suppression of opposition"

I would like to see an example of that that didn't come from the left.


"Trump cheered and encouraged the use of violence and force against peaceful protesters and the media."


Like you said;    bullshit.

[YoDoug]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=4362 time=1611335189 user_id=57]

Just a couple of thoughts about Fascism;

1. Nationalism isn't always a bad thing. Citizens should feel pride for their nation and want to see policy that keeps their nation successful and strong among the world.

Nationalism is when the nation and the party are put before the people.  Anyone disagreeing with the party or the leader is labeled as a traitor and cast out.  This was Trumps modus operandi.

2. The racism/sexism/etc arguments are just the same old race card playing tactics of the left.

Bullshit.  Trump actively courted and supported white supremacist groups.

3. Rampant cronyism and corruption are equally red or blue. It just changes which group of rich people benefit.

Present on both sides, yes, but far worse under Trump.  He filled the government with friends and family members who had no qualifications for their jobs.  He fired anyone he could who dared disagree with him and replaced them with someone loyal.

4. Liberals are the group that wants to oppress free speech and debate. They are the party of Cancel Culture that cancels anyone they can that disagrees with them.

Trump cheered and encouraged the use of violence and force against peaceful protesters and the media.  He also attempted to repeal section 230 to punish those who spoke out against him, and to prevent them from being able to do so again.

5. Fraudulent elections are the result of liberal election policies. Conservatives want fair but stronger election laws that ensure only legal votes are cast. Liberals oppose measures like voter ID laws, again playing the race card in doing so.

There is some truth in this, but for the most part objections were only made after it became clear that Trump had lost.  Before the election Trump expressed confidence in the integrity of the voting system.

6. controlled mass media, while the liberal politicians don't have state level control over the media, they don't need to because the media is a defacto extension of their PR.

There are essentially two different, non-overlapping medias.  Each party has its own truth, which defines the opposing party and media as liars and crazies.  Anyone who watches ANY media cannot participate in a rational discussion of politics.

7. Supremacy of the military, the only difference is the R's celebrate this while the Liberals still play nation building and warmongering to the benefit of their crony capitalist defense donors. The Libs pretend it is different somehow.

This one, you're right, doesn't really apply under Trump.  He called those who served and died in the military "losers" and "suckers".

IMO, the Fascism defining list can be split equally between both parties these days.

Both parties are clearly authoritarian, and therefore unamerican.  This is why for the nation to survive we must eliminate the two party system.
[/quote]

Wow, considering you and I live within an hour of each other, you would think we live in different counties by our views. I fear that the divide in this country is too large to overcome and that civil war or worse is inevitable.

[Del.]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=4362 time=1611335189 user_id=57]

Just a couple of thoughts about Fascism;

1. Nationalism isn't always a bad thing. Citizens should feel pride for their nation and want to see policy that keeps their nation successful and strong among the world.

Nationalism is when the nation and the party are put before the people.  Anyone disagreeing with the party or the leader is labeled as a traitor and cast out.  This was Trumps modus operandi.

2. The racism/sexism/etc arguments are just the same old race card playing tactics of the left.

Bullshit.  Trump actively courted and supported white supremacist groups.

3. Rampant cronyism and corruption are equally red or blue. It just changes which group of rich people benefit.

Present on both sides, yes, but far worse under Trump.  He filled the government with friends and family members who had no qualifications for their jobs.  He fired anyone he could who dared disagree with him and replaced them with someone loyal.

4. Liberals are the group that wants to oppress free speech and debate. They are the party of Cancel Culture that cancels anyone they can that disagrees with them.

Trump cheered and encouraged the use of violence and force against peaceful protesters and the media.  He also attempted to repeal section 230 to punish those who spoke out against him, and to prevent them from being able to do so again.

5. Fraudulent elections are the result of liberal election policies. Conservatives want fair but stronger election laws that ensure only legal votes are cast. Liberals oppose measures like voter ID laws, again playing the race card in doing so.

There is some truth in this, but for the most part objections were only made after it became clear that Trump had lost.  Before the election Trump expressed confidence in the integrity of the voting system.

6. controlled mass media, while the liberal politicians don't have state level control over the media, they don't need to because the media is a defacto extension of their PR.

There are essentially two different, non-overlapping medias.  Each party has its own truth, which defines the opposing party and media as liars and crazies.  Anyone who watches ANY media cannot participate in a rational discussion of politics.

7. Supremacy of the military, the only difference is the R's celebrate this while the Liberals still play nation building and warmongering to the benefit of their crony capitalist defense donors. The Libs pretend it is different somehow.

This one, you're right, doesn't really apply under Trump.  He called those who served and died in the military "losers" and "suckers".

IMO, the Fascism defining list can be split equally between both parties these days.

Both parties are clearly authoritarian, and therefore unamerican.  This is why for the nation to survive we must eliminate the two party system.

Wow, considering you and I live within an hour of each other, you would think we live in different counties by our views. I fear that the divide in this country is too large to overcome and that civil war or worse is inevitable.
[/quote]

Yep. I see no possibility of peace.

[Zoober]

Different planets.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Wow, considering you and I live within an hour of each other, you would think we live in different counties by our views. I fear that the divide in this country is too large to overcome and that civil war or worse is inevitable.

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=4362 time=1611335189 user_id=57]
There are essentially two different, non-overlapping medias.  Each party has its own truth, which defines the opposing party and media as liars and crazies.  Anyone who watches ANY media cannot participate in a rational discussion of politics.
[/quote]

[Matthew Hajicek]

"... the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."

[Del.]

For some maybe, but I am more than capable of dissecting the bs from all media and forming my own opinion.

[rdshear]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=4362 time=1611335189 user_id=57]
There are essentially two different, non-overlapping medias.  Each party has its own truth, which defines the opposing party and media as liars and crazies.  Anyone who watches ANY media cannot participate in a rational discussion of politics.
[/quote]

While you may be somewhat accurate in your above statement, the fact that you conveniently left out was that one side is represented by ALL broadcast media networks as well as MOST cable news networks.  The other side is represented (Loosly) by 1 main cable network and maybe 2 barely known cable networks.

Now if you want to wrap Internet sites, sure anyone can find a site or several to serve their ideals, but you don't find these channel surfing TV.  Broadcast / Cable Television news networks are where the push is severely and strategically one sided.  Even late night TV shows are pure left wing.  It's no wonder people start to believe what they get spoon fed on virtually every news outlet they watch.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Who watches broadcast or cable anymore?

Yes, both "sides" are full on propaganda machines.  You can't trust anything from either one.  Many here seem to fervently trust one of them, even when it contradicts itself; compartmentalization is funny that way.