The real reason for the tariffs

Started by Smit, April 06, 2025, 06:40 AM

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Del.

#135
April 16, 2025, 06:31 AM
Quote from: neurosis on April 16, 2025, 06:22 AMI agree with you. MSNBC, at least back when I had cable television and was able to watch it, was just as bad as Fox in the other direction. 

My bigger point is that you can't even use right leaning sources to make a point if they are at all criticizing Trump. Criticize Trump = immediately dismissed.
Put Trump's name with anything and YOU dismiss it.
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neurosis

#136
April 16, 2025, 06:32 AM
Quote"Fact Checking" pretty much only occurrs when a conservative speaks"

I saw plenty of "fact checking" going on during the Biden administration. Maybe not as much? Maybe it's not noticeable to anyone on the right because the term "fact check" has become taboo? 

I will say this.  The number of people in my facebook feed who are right leaning and still say things like "tariffs are a tax cut" because they heard Trump or Navarro say it on Fox news, is incredible.
I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

SuperHoneyBadger

#137
April 16, 2025, 06:33 AM
Quote from: neurosis on April 16, 2025, 06:22 AMMy bigger point is that you can't even use right leaning sources to make a point if they are at all criticizing Trump. Criticize Trump = immediately dismissed.

Doesn't help that only incendiary and clickbaity titles will get any clicks/views, so you're alienating half of people from even considering your points because they don't jive with the wording of the title. And catch 22, because you won't get through the noise and connect with the intended audience if you don't pander.

It's no wonder we can't have a truthful and balanced media perspective, because nobody would read it.

Bucky Cornstarch

#138
April 16, 2025, 06:35 AM
Quote from: YoDoug on April 16, 2025, 05:39 AMAny article or piece with "Fact Check" in the title is a red flag, regardless of source. You can spin those "facts" any way you want. You can change times, timelines, data set sizes, locations, subgroups, etc. Then put a percentage on it and call it facts. The same for articles that say "5 things you need to know about" or something of that sort. Rather than give you all the info they give you the version that fits their agenda.

No. Facts are supported by evidence.
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neurosis

#139
April 16, 2025, 06:39 AM
Quote from: SuperHoneyBadger on April 16, 2025, 06:33 AMDoesn't help that only incendiary and clickbaity titles will get any clicks/views, so you're alienating half of people from even considering your points because they don't jive with the wording of the title. And catch 22, because you won't get through the noise and connect with the intended audience if you don't pander.

Maybe they should have titled it "Trump has a huge cock, but his trade war might need some re-thinking"?  :D Would grab both audiences? And maybe some extras?
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I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

SuperHoneyBadger

#140
April 16, 2025, 06:44 AM
Quote from: Bucky Cornstarch on April 16, 2025, 06:35 AMNo. Facts are supported by evidence.

And presentation of facts is also based on the same evidence, is the argument.

Nobody trusts anyone's sources, and for good reason since academia is bought and paid for, the peer review process is irrelevant, and unrepeateable claims are touted as facts.


Quote from: neurosis on April 16, 2025, 06:39 AMMaybe they should have titled it "Trump has a huge cock, but his trade war might need some re-thinking"?  :D Would grab both audiences? And maybe some extras?

I love it, personally. Steer into skid!
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YoDoug

#141
April 16, 2025, 06:45 AM
Quote from: Bucky Cornstarch on April 16, 2025, 06:35 AMNo. Facts are supported by evidence.

LOL, either you are intentionally being obtuse about how "facts" are derived, or you are stupid. You tell me what outcome you want and I can cherry pick, massage, and manipulate the evidence used to justify the "facts" that support your desired outcome.
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"In all my years here and on the old forum I have heard, and likely said, some pretty unhinged stuff. But congrats, you're the new leader in clubhouse."  - ghuns, 6/06/2025

neurosis

#142
April 16, 2025, 07:01 AM
Quote from: YoDoug on April 16, 2025, 06:45 AMYou tell me what outcome you want and I can cherry pick, massage, and manipulate the evidence used to justify the "facts" that support your desired outcome.

At this point, it would be impossible to predict the outcome of tariff policy. It changes from one day to the next and there isn't a clear goal. Are we just trying to negotiate tariff rates? Are we trying to bring manufacturing back to the US? Are we trying to even out the trade deficits? Are we using tariffs to generate more revenue to help get the budget deficit under control?

One thing that isn't debatable. It's going to cost us consumers a lot of money, even if he left the tariffs where they're at right now? Can we agree on that? 


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I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

YoDoug

#143
April 16, 2025, 07:09 AM
Quote from: neurosis on April 16, 2025, 07:01 AMOne thing that isn't debatable. It's going to cost us consumers a lot of money, even if he left the tariffs where they're at right now? Can we agree on that? 

This falls in with the whole "facts" debate. Will tariffs cause higher prices initially, probably. Will that lead to more American MFG, better trade balances, a stronger economy, higher wages, stronger dollar, most likely. The facts of tariffs depend on the timeframe and other variables.

It's like taxes. Raise taxes and short term revenues increase but long term economic growth slows. Lower taxes and the opposite happens. You can spin those facts either way depending on the message you want to convey.
"In all my years here and on the old forum I have heard, and likely said, some pretty unhinged stuff. But congrats, you're the new leader in clubhouse."  - ghuns, 6/06/2025

Smit

#144
April 16, 2025, 07:17 AM
It's amazing watching people take words and try to change them to mean whatever they want them to mean.  :lol:
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neurosis

#145
April 16, 2025, 07:18 AM
Quote from: YoDoug on April 16, 2025, 07:09 AMWill that lead to more American MFG, better trade balances, a stronger economy, higher wages, stronger dollar, most likely.

You'll have to show me the evidence on this. At least with current tariffs in place. Did Trumps 2016 presidency tariffs lead to more American manufacturing (it did somewhat) and at what price? Did we really come out better on the other side? 

The last round of tariffs caused higher prices, and that can be proven. And not just on imported products. Domestic product prices were raised 'because they could' to match the higher price of the imports.  I think I posted the washing machine example months back?
I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

mowens

#146
April 16, 2025, 07:29 AM
Quote from: CNCAppsJames on April 16, 2025, 06:20 AMThey didn't screw up my life, i love manufacturing.  Baby Boomers just screwed up our Nation's ability to make stuff.

If they didn't outright sell mineral rights and land leases on our own US soil, they moved production overseass... because #FactoriesRBad.

:coffee:

Geez, I don't remember doing any of that.

James you are an intelligent guy. Most of the time you say intelligent things.

Sometimes you mistake arrogance for intelligence. I do that all the time.

Sometimes... well, we all have bad days.
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"I would gladly risk feeling bad at times if it also meant that I could taste my dessert." - Data

Del.

#147
April 16, 2025, 07:40 AM
Quote from: neurosis on April 16, 2025, 07:18 AMYou'll have to show me the evidence on this. At least with current tariffs in place. Did Trumps 2016 presidency tariffs lead to more American manufacturing (it did somewhat) and at what price? Did we really come out better on the other side? 

The last round of tariffs caused higher prices, and that can be proven. And not just on imported products. Domestic product prices were raised 'because they could' to match the higher price of the imports.  I think I posted the washing machine example months back?


Bill Clinton, Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama all wanted to do what Trump is doing now but not one criticism of them at the time from you liberals. Your hypocrisy has no bounds.
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Smit

#148
April 16, 2025, 07:53 AM
Quote from: Del. on April 16, 2025, 07:40 AMBill Clinton, Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Obama all wanted to do what Trump is doing now but not one criticism of them at the time from you liberals. Your hypocrisy has no bounds.

JFC dude, get a grip. :rolleyes:

Nobody has ever wanted to do what Trump is doing right now. Because what he's doing is fucking stupid.
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