New Coolant filling system

YoDoug · July 14, 2021, 05:22 AM

Of all of the new equipment we have added over the last year or two, this my be my favorite. We have a college kid doing a summer internship with us. His project is to automate our coolant filling. Previous we had to drag a hose around the shop to each machine, twice a day. I have been supervising and helping with component spec and answering PLC programming questions, but for the most part it has been his project. Stage one is central unit with an HMI to select the machine you want to fill and the amount of time you want it to fill in minutes. There is a switch to pull from a recycled coolant bin that has coolant collected from our compactor. Still needs a little work on the HMI screens for user friendliness. Stage two will be to add float switches to each machine and have it automatically fill. Stage one is almost finished. We should testing by the end of the week.

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neurosis · July 14, 2021, 05:24 AM

A friend of mine put one of those together for a shop he worked at several years back. It wasn't quite that fancy but it worked great. I always wondered what would happen if something went wrong.

Jon@NOWHERE · July 14, 2021, 05:26 AM

Wow, very nice project! When adding the floats to the machines how will you prevent overfilling while the machine is running?

Shazam/TPP · July 14, 2021, 05:26 AM

slick system and that coolant is excellent.

YoDoug · July 14, 2021, 05:56 AM

Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13247 time=1626265595 user_id=65Wow, very nice project! When adding the floats to the machines how will you prevent overfilling while the machine is running?

That is one of the reasons why we are doing it in two stages. We have three concerns for the fully automated system; 1, overfilling as you mentioned. 2, Coolant concentricity. When we are manually filling it is an easy adjustment on the mixer to add more/less coolant. 3, Running unattended. We know now that if the machines are filled at the end of the day they will make it overnight without issue. We don't need it to autofill at night if the risk of issues is too big.

YoDoug · July 14, 2021, 06:01 AM

Quote from: neurosis post_id=13246 time=1626265485 user_id=49A friend of mine put one of those together for a shop he worked at several years back. It wasn't quite that fancy but it worked great. I always wondered what would happen if something went wrong.

We have been attempting to add redundant safety into the system. We have a main solenoid for incoming water and each machine has a solenoid. Even if one solenoid sticks you need two open to have coolant flow. We also have a flow sensor that will send an alert if it senses flow while the main solenoid is closed. We are planning to add individual flow sensors to each machine. I'm sure we will find other needed additions when we fully test the system.

Jon@NOWHERE · July 14, 2021, 06:49 AM

Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13249 time=1626267407 user_id=58
Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13247 time=1626265595 user_id=65Wow, very nice project! When adding the floats to the machines how will you prevent overfilling while the machine is running?

That is one of the reasons why we are doing it in two stages. We have three concerns for the fully automated system; 1, overfilling as you mentioned. 2, Coolant concentricity. When we are manually filling it is an easy adjustment on the mixer to add more/less coolant. 3, Running unattended. We know now that if the machines are filled at the end of the day they will make it overnight without issue. We don't need it to autofill at night if the risk of issues is too big.

Maybe you could add an inline refractometer similar to something like this:

https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/produc ... YgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE

not sure if that could be used for machine coolant or not

Jeff · July 14, 2021, 07:25 AM

That's genius!

Stage 3 = patent
Stage 4 = profit

YoDoug · July 14, 2021, 07:27 AM

Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13254 time=1626270592 user_id=65
Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13249 time=1626267407 user_id=58
Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13247 time=1626265595 user_id=65Wow, very nice project! When adding the floats to the machines how will you prevent overfilling while the machine is running?

That is one of the reasons why we are doing it in two stages. We have three concerns for the fully automated system; 1, overfilling as you mentioned. 2, Coolant concentricity. When we are manually filling it is an easy adjustment on the mixer to add more/less coolant. 3, Running unattended. We know now that if the machines are filled at the end of the day they will make it overnight without issue. We don't need it to autofill at night if the risk of issues is too big.

Maybe you could add an inline refractometer similar to something like this:

https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/produc ... YgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE

not sure if that could be used for machine coolant or not

Our mixer is a manual adjustment on concentration so adding a refractometer wouldn't really help. That is probably the biggest reason we would stay with the manual system.

YoDoug · July 14, 2021, 07:29 AM

Quote from: Jeff post_id=13256 time=1626272710 user_id=103That's genius!

Stage 3 = patent
Stage 4 = profit

There is a company in MN that has a system they sell. We got a quote but it would have been close to $75K to setup our 11 machines. That is why we opted for the summer intern route.

https://168mfg.com/">https://168mfg.com/

Jon@NOWHERE · July 14, 2021, 07:44 AM

Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13258 time=1626272875 user_id=58
Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13254 time=1626270592 user_id=65
Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13249 time=1626267407 user_id=58That is one of the reasons why we are doing it in two stages. We have three concerns for the fully automated system; 1, overfilling as you mentioned. 2, Coolant concentricity. When we are manually filling it is an easy adjustment on the mixer to add more/less coolant. 3, Running unattended. We know now that if the machines are filled at the end of the day they will make it overnight without issue. We don't need it to autofill at night if the risk of issues is too big.

Maybe you could add an inline refractometer similar to something like this:

https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/produc ... YgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE

not sure if that could be used for machine coolant or not

Our mixer is a manual adjustment on concentration so adding a refractometer wouldn't really help. That is probably the biggest reason we would stay with the manual system.

Is adding a digital mixer, that could be controlled an option? I would think if you are going to go the route that you are going you would want to automate everything that is possible. Making the concentration selectable just like your machines and have everything monitored and adjusted on the fly seems like the ideal situation. Either way I think what you guys are doing is cool, it is something I would like to see done here because our coolant management is very poor.

YoDoug · July 14, 2021, 09:54 AM

Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13264 time=1626273893 user_id=65
Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13258 time=1626272875 user_id=58
Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13254 time=1626270592 user_id=65Maybe you could add an inline refractometer similar to something like this:

https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/produc ... YgQAvD_BwE">https://www.anton-paar.com/us-en/products/details/l-rix-500051005200-inline-refractometer/?ref=adwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=US_BS.PI&utm_content=C-00039441&gclid=CjwKCAjwlrqHBhByEiwAnLmYUNRUcOjM7CzU1Uwgl47953XS-PXzLdOHV-ursqKpW5_GpgyiFtBwoBoCIYgQAvD_BwE

not sure if that could be used for machine coolant or not

Our mixer is a manual adjustment on concentration so adding a refractometer wouldn't really help. That is probably the biggest reason we would stay with the manual system.

Is adding a digital mixer, that could be controlled an option? I would think if you are going to go the route that you are going you would want to automate everything that is possible. Making the concentration selectable just like your machines and have everything monitored and adjusted on the fly seems like the ideal situation. Either way I think what you guys are doing is cool, it is something I would like to see done here because our coolant management is very poor.

We did a little research and the cost to do automatic concentration adjustment was really high. You would need one of those sensors at each machine. The ones we looked at were over $4k. We would spend $44k just in sensors to read concentricity at the machine, which is what would be needed to automatically adjust. If it were cheaper we might consider it.

mkd · July 14, 2021, 10:09 AM

Seems like a central coolant system would make sense. Company I work with has one, plus they graph concentration on each mill.

Jon@NOWHERE · July 14, 2021, 10:48 AM

Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13268 time=1626281671 user_id=58
Quote from: Jon@NOWHERE post_id=13264 time=1626273893 user_id=65
Quote from: YoDoug post_id=13258 time=1626272875 user_id=58Our mixer is a manual adjustment on concentration so adding a refractometer wouldn't really help. That is probably the biggest reason we would stay with the manual system.

Is adding a digital mixer, that could be controlled an option? I would think if you are going to go the route that you are going you would want to automate everything that is possible. Making the concentration selectable just like your machines and have everything monitored and adjusted on the fly seems like the ideal situation. Either way I think what you guys are doing is cool, it is something I would like to see done here because our coolant management is very poor.

We did a little research and the cost to do automatic concentration adjustment was really high. You would need one of those sensors at each machine. The ones we looked at were over $4k. We would spend $44k just in sensors to read concentricity at the machine, which is what would be needed to automatically adjust. If it were cheaper we might consider it.

That makes sense, sometimes things become cost prohibitive.

Makes me wonder on the costs of this dazzle system and how robust it is.
http://www.zebraskimmers.com/oil_skimmer_products/fill_station_fluid_delivery.html">http://www.zebraskimmers.com/oil_skimme ... ivery.html">http://www.zebraskimmers.com/oil_skimmer_products/fill_station_fluid_delivery.html

Incogneeto · July 14, 2021, 02:31 PM

We used to just Pee in the Tank, it Cut down on the need for Bathroom breaks.

I can see this running lights out or robotic. But just like Fukishima I would want daily Morning Checks.
And to be Honest the first thing a Trained Machinist will do is Check his Fluids and maintenance first thing every day.
before operation.

Now all you need to do is string toilet paper between his ass cheeks and set the timer for every four hours.

Some guys require a Lil More (YoDoug plant based diet) and some a Lil less (Neuro only eats every two weeks when ST Cooks)

What I'm really saying is .

"who's monitoring the monitor"??

What if 2nd shift likes 7% and first only likes 5% and hell 3rd shift runs what? 2 parts maybe 12%