Vaccine required for employment

[Reko]

Well, the way I see it, it's Reko's free market at work. Spirit provides above average pay and benefits. If I want to partake in those, I have to meet Spirit's conditions for employment. The reasons for those requirements, at this point,, are irrelevant. One of those conditions is now being vaccinated. I can choose not to get vaccinated and not work for them. I can also choose to not get drug tested and again not work for them.

And Reko
You are still an idiot. You never did listen to what I said. You would hear a couple of words and then make shit up. Everything you just said about me is wrong. How you got from advocating for supplemental income for disabled people to wanting  the government to provide cradle to grave care is astounding. Then you got all pissy when I pointed out what the results (dead people) would be of your position.

I sometimes wish I could be like you. Except the imaginary world I would live in would be way better than the one you created.



Ah, the good old forum days.😀

You still can't answer a direct question  

And saying government mandating companies that have over 100 people can only employ vaccinated people or face $700,000 fines per incident is capitalism... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Well, that makes you dumb as a box of rocks.

Your pet project, cradle to grave, big government ideology is playing out right in front of your eyes.

THIS is EXACTLTY what I railed against... incrementalism... overreach... government stealing away freedom after freedom because people like you WANTED to give away that power.

Well here we are... you should step up and own it... but like all liberal/progressives... you won't... you just lie and call it "capitalism."

I guess you can convince yourself of anything.

Well , I'm convinced my 3 year old grand daughter has better critical thinking skills than you. And way better reading skills. You may have her on imagination though. She's way more grounded in reality than you.

She's probably a hardcore, free market conservative then.  

[Reko]

When thinking about the the experts opinions of herd-immunity, it makes this OSHA vax mandate even more suspicious. The number of people employed at companies under 100, the unemployed, retired, and under 16 keeps it far below what is considered enough people to reach herd-immunity. However, it leaves enough unvaxxed to keep the pandemic alive and enough vaxxed to put enough external pressure on the virus forcing new variant mutations. It's almost as if this mandate is purposely designed to keep the scamdemic and powergrab alive. If you asked me for a good way to keep it alive through next fall so they can justify mail-in-stealing the midterm elections, this mandate would fit the requirements.

The thing you are missing is... the numbers 100 and 16 are completely arbitrary.

The precedent is set... that's what matters to them.

After a while... 100 changes to 30, then 10, then all... and 16 to 13 to 5 and then to all.

Oh... and don't think it's just business owners either... because if you draw a Social Security check... they can, and eventually will, release those checks to only the vaccinated.

And... do you have a retirement fund? Want to access that money? You better be vaccinated or the answer will be no. It's coming. Believe me.

No vaccine... no freedoms.

Behind on your vaccination booster shots? You are cancelled... and don't ask what's in the shots either... but just know you WILL be under complete control.

Does anyone want to go back to 100% free markets and capitalism yet?

Just remember... I told ya so.  

[YoDoug]

When thinking about the the experts opinions of herd-immunity, it makes this OSHA vax mandate even more suspicious. The number of people employed at companies under 100, the unemployed, retired, and under 16 keeps it far below what is considered enough people to reach herd-immunity. However, it leaves enough unvaxxed to keep the pandemic alive and enough vaxxed to put enough external pressure on the virus forcing new variant mutations. It's almost as if this mandate is purposely designed to keep the scamdemic and powergrab alive. If you asked me for a good way to keep it alive through next fall so they can justify mail-in-stealing the midterm elections, this mandate would fit the requirements.

The thing you are missing is... the numbers 100 and 16 are completely arbitrary.

The precedent is set... that's what matters to them.

After a while... 100 changes to 30, then 10, then all... and 16 to 13 to 5 and then to all.

Oh... and don't think it's just business owners either... because if you draw a Social Security check... the can and eventually will tie getting those checks to only the vaccinated.

And... do you have a retirement fund? Want to access that? You better be vaccinated or the answer is no.

No vaccine... no freedoms.

Behind on your vaccination booster shots? You are cancelled.

Does anyone want to go back to 100% free markets and capitalism yet?

Just remember... I told ya so.  

Sometimes I think Mowens is right about your reading comprehension. I made the argument that they are setting the numbers specifically so they can keep the pandemic going and keep their power grab going. Then you argued that the numbers don't matter, they will change them over time, it's about their power grab. You essentially just agreed with exactly what I said, but then decided to try to turn it into a free market argument.

[Reko]

When thinking about the the experts opinions of herd-immunity, it makes this OSHA vax mandate even more suspicious. The number of people employed at companies under 100, the unemployed, retired, and under 16 keeps it far below what is considered enough people to reach herd-immunity. However, it leaves enough unvaxxed to keep the pandemic alive and enough vaxxed to put enough external pressure on the virus forcing new variant mutations. It's almost as if this mandate is purposely designed to keep the scamdemic and powergrab alive. If you asked me for a good way to keep it alive through next fall so they can justify mail-in-stealing the midterm elections, this mandate would fit the requirements.

The thing you are missing is... the numbers 100 and 16 are completely arbitrary.

The precedent is set... that's what matters to them.

After a while... 100 changes to 30, then 10, then all... and 16 to 13 to 5 and then to all.

Oh... and don't think it's just business owners either... because if you draw a Social Security check... the can and eventually will tie getting those checks to only the vaccinated.

And... do you have a retirement fund? Want to access that? You better be vaccinated or the answer is no.

No vaccine... no freedoms.

Behind on your vaccination booster shots? You are cancelled.

Does anyone want to go back to 100% free markets and capitalism yet?

Just remember... I told ya so.  

Sometimes I think Mowens is right about your reading comprehension. I made the argument that they are setting the numbers specifically so they can keep the pandemic going and keep their power grab going. Then you argued that the numbers don't matter, they will change them over time, it's about their power grab. You essentially just agreed with exactly what I said, but then decided to try to turn it into a free market argument.

I did agree with you... and I noted you missed some details, which I stated.

Liberty and freedom... that's the underlying issue here... so I'm only "turning it into" what it already innately is.

[YoDoug]

The thing you are missing is... the numbers 100 and 16 are completely arbitrary.

The precedent is set... that's what matters to them.

After a while... 100 changes to 30, then 10, then all... and 16 to 13 to 5 and then to all.

Oh... and don't think it's just business owners either... because if you draw a Social Security check... the can and eventually will tie getting those checks to only the vaccinated.

And... do you have a retirement fund? Want to access that? You better be vaccinated or the answer is no.

No vaccine... no freedoms.

Behind on your vaccination booster shots? You are cancelled.

Does anyone want to go back to 100% free markets and capitalism yet?

Just remember... I told ya so.  

Sometimes I think Mowens is right about your reading comprehension. I made the argument that they are setting the numbers specifically so they can keep the pandemic going and keep their power grab going. Then you argued that the numbers don't matter, they will change them over time, it's about their power grab. You essentially just agreed with exactly what I said, but then decided to try to turn it into a free market argument.

I did agree with you... and I noted you missed some details, which I stated.

Liberty and freedom... that's the underlying issue here... so I'm only "turning it into" what it already innately is.

I'd say if there is one thing that this vax mandate stuff points out it is a major failure of freedom and capitalism. The vax has issues. It has side effects and loses it effective protection benefits over time. Yet it is being forced on us by mandate. At the same time you have big pharma that stands to make billions off of this forced mandate. When free market capitalists companies get to big and are run by immoral greedy people they just bribe immoral gov officials to mandate their products rather than find a solution that the market wants. Inevitably this will happen over time in any free market. For a truly free market to exist it requires a level of morals that don't exist. I'm not saying socialism is the answer, because it fails every time. However greed and immoral business practices will always take over a free market.

[Reko]

Sometimes I think Mowens is right about your reading comprehension. I made the argument that they are setting the numbers specifically so they can keep the pandemic going and keep their power grab going. Then you argued that the numbers don't matter, they will change them over time, it's about their power grab. You essentially just agreed with exactly what I said, but then decided to try to turn it into a free market argument.

I did agree with you... and I noted you missed some details, which I stated.

Liberty and freedom... that's the underlying issue here... so I'm only "turning it into" what it already innately is.

I'd say if there is one thing that this vax mandate stuff points out it is a major failure of freedom and capitalism. The vax has issues. It has side effects and loses it effective protection benefits over time. Yet it is being forced on us by mandate. At the same time you have big pharma that stands to make billions off of this forced mandate. When free market capitalists companies get to big and are run by immoral greedy people they just bribe immoral gov officials to mandate their products rather than find a solution that the market wants. Inevitably this will happen over time in any free market. For a truly free market to exist it requires a level of morals that don't exist. I'm not saying socialism is the answer, because it fails every time. However greed and immoral business practices will always take over a free market.

Completely wrong.

You even stated in your paragraph, they're bribing government officials... that's not a free market.  

Government involvement, like making it so the vaccine makers can't be sued, well... that's anti-capitalism... that's fascism... and that's the heart of the problem.

We need to go back to free market principles.

[YoDoug]

I did agree with you... and I noted you missed some details, which I stated.

Liberty and freedom... that's the underlying issue here... so I'm only "turning it into" what it already innately is.

I'd say if there is one thing that this vax mandate stuff points out it is a major failure of freedom and capitalism. The vax has issues. It has side effects and loses it effective protection benefits over time. Yet it is being forced on us by mandate. At the same time you have big pharma that stands to make billions off of this forced mandate. When free market capitalists companies get to big and are run by immoral greedy people they just bribe immoral gov officials to mandate their products rather than find a solution that the market wants. Inevitably this will happen over time in any free market. For a truly free market to exist it requires a level of morals that don't exist. I'm not saying socialism is the answer, because it fails every time. However greed and immoral business practices will always take over a free market.

Completely wrong.

You even stated in your paragraph, they're bribing government officials... that's not a free market.  

Government involvement, like making it so the vaccine makers can't be sued, well... that's anti-capitalism... that's fascism... and that's the heart of the problem.

We need to go back to free market principles.

Again you completely missed the point. The point is the morals needed for a free market to work are not the norm anymore. Free market capitalism is a great theory, but the free part requires moral integrity to succeed.

I ask you this, how do you propose we stay a free people with free elections but stop the greedy, immoral, wealthy from bribing and getting corrupt officials elected?

[mowens]

I don't care if anyone gets the vaccine. I will say that I've had 3 friends die so far from Covid. The last funeral was today.

I think the mandate is stupid just like this $600 transaction thing. I am skeptical that it will actually be enforced. I don't see how it could be.
I work for a defense contractor. For many jobs in this sector you have to be fingerprinted, sometimes polygraphed and provide page after page of personal details. Being vaccinated is just one more requirement for me. Besides, I got vaccinated in March.

I don't know what Reko's talking about or where he got the idea I support this. I just reported that Spirit was requiring it. I don't think I would be willing to give up my job for it.

[Reko]

I don't care if anyone gets the vaccine. I will say that I've had 3 friends die so far from Covid. The last funeral was today.

I think the mandate is stupid just like this $600 transaction thing. I am skeptical that it will actually be enforced. I don't see how it could be.
I work for a defense contractor. For many jobs in this sector you have to be fingerprinted, sometimes polygraphed and provide page after page of personal details. Being vaccinated is just one more requirement for me. Besides, I got vaccinated in March.

I don't know what Reko's talking about or where he got the idea I support this. I just reported that Spirit was requiring it. I don't think I would be willing to give up my job for it.

You don't know?
Okay... I'll say it again... you're a big government advocate.
You see your favorite little pet programs as essential... well... so do others that support their pet socialist programs.
Thousands of people = thousands of programs! See?
You are the problem.
You allow for these intrusive programs that steal away essential freedom.

You seem to think that if you state a few things you oppose government controlling... that somehow makes you conservative... it doesn't.
You are Mitt Romney. You are John McCain. You are the poster-child for BIG GOVERNMENT!

Your attitude is the very essence of what authoritarian tyrants want... they want people to turn power over to them because they whisperer in your ear how they will solve your perceived societal problems.

Why can't you see?
You are the voter that welcomes the camel's nose under the tent!
Then... when the entire damn animal is fully on the inside trashing the whole damn tent... you and your shocked face say... woah... how did this happen?

Sheesh.  :huh:

[Reko]

I'd say if there is one thing that this vax mandate stuff points out it is a major failure of freedom and capitalism. The vax has issues. It has side effects and loses it effective protection benefits over time. Yet it is being forced on us by mandate. At the same time you have big pharma that stands to make billions off of this forced mandate. When free market capitalists companies get to big and are run by immoral greedy people they just bribe immoral gov officials to mandate their products rather than find a solution that the market wants. Inevitably this will happen over time in any free market. For a truly free market to exist it requires a level of morals that don't exist. I'm not saying socialism is the answer, because it fails every time. However greed and immoral business practices will always take over a free market.

Completely wrong.

You even stated in your paragraph, they're bribing government officials... that's not a free market.  

Government involvement, like making it so the vaccine makers can't be sued, well... that's anti-capitalism... that's fascism... and that's the heart of the problem.

We need to go back to free market principles.

Again you completely missed the point. The point is the morals needed for a free market to work are not the norm anymore. Free market capitalism is a great theory, but the free part requires moral integrity to succeed.

I ask you this, how do you propose we stay a free people with free elections but stop the greedy, immoral, wealthy from bribing and getting corrupt officials elected?

How?
Start with one person.
You.
Understand the concept first.
More government = Less freedom
Stop arguing against free markets... ditch the negativity... advocate for liberty... Forever.
Then, go tell everyone you know... free market capitalism is superior to any other economic system ever conceived.
We need to make a serious and strong push to get back to our founding values for individual freedom.
It won't happen overnight.
Lovers of liberty must band together... believe in the concepts... and never back down.
Freedom is simply the best state for human existence.

[Tim Johnson]

I ask you this, how do you propose we stay a free people with free elections but stop the greedy, immoral, wealthy from bribing and getting corrupt officials elected?

The only way I can think of is create a max dollar amount ($1000.00 sounds like a good number) that any person and corporation can "donate" to the people running for office. The max dollar needs to the same for both people and corporations since corporations are "people" also. Corporations would also have to be deemed "One person" to avoid the practice of donating for each employed person.

[mowens]

Reko you are a hoot!

Here's your logic.

You want no government money for disabled people.

The Nazi's wanted no government money for the disabled.

You are a Nazi.

Who knew?

[YoDoug]

[quote="Tim Johnson" post_id=17242 time=1634390964 user_id=68]

I ask you this, how do you propose we stay a free people with free elections but stop the greedy, immoral, wealthy from bribing and getting corrupt officials elected?

The only way I can think of is create a max dollar amount ($1000.00 sounds like a good number) that any person and corporation can "donate" to the people running for office. The max dollar needs to the same for both people and corporations since corporations are "people" also. Corporations would also have to be deemed "One person" to avoid the practice of donating for each employed person.
[/quote]

Unfortunately I don't have much hope for the future of America. Our culture has been lost. We celebrate what is immoral and scorn what is moral. I think the only thing that can build the character needed to reset America is great suffering. The problem is we are heading towards great suffering under totalitarian control. Even when people realize it, freedom will be gone.

[Reko]

Reko you are a hoot!

Here's your logic.

You want no government money for disabled people.

The Nazi's wanted no government money for the disabled.

You are a Nazi.

Who knew?

Ah, I see.
If someone disagrees with your pet program... they must be a Nazi.
You broke Godwin's Law... you loose.

Again, you have your pet socialist program... thousands of others have theirs.
You are complicit in dragging the USA into socialism.
Own it.

[mowens]

Apparently you don't understand how analogies work so I'll explain it too you.

I was explaining what my conclusion would be if I used the same logic you use to reach your conclusions about me.

That may still be a little confusing. Try this.

I advocate for supplemental income for severely disabled people.

 You have used this one single fact to accuse me of being a big government liberal; of being a socialist,, of being a Hilary Clinton voter; of supporting cradle to grave big government programs.

From one single thing.

Now for you.

We know you have stated that under no circumstances should severely disabled people receive government money.
 Now, I will use your technique of taking a single fact and make huge extrapolations about a person's beliefs.

You say "no gov. money for the disableld".

Now here is where the Reko school of thought comes in.
I will think of the worst group of people who might share that one single fact. Regardless of whether you in any way share anything else in common.. Can't get much worse than Nazis.

So. You say no government help for the disabled.
The Nazis said the same thing.
Remember I'm copying your train of thought.

So, using your technique of gross exaggeration, the logical conclusion would be that you are a Nazi.
Because you have one single idea in common.

That means, by the way, that I didn't call you a Nazi. If anything you did.
So Godwin's law doesn't apply.  But the Dunning Krueger effect does.

If the Nazi thing doesn't convince you then try this.

You say no government Yada Yada
Now the Reko school of cognitive reasoning could say
Reko doesn't like disabled people.
Reko wants disabled people to die.

Do you see how ridiculous your logic is?

Probably not.