GOP Senators spied on by Biden Administration

Started by beej, October 07, 2025, 06:31 AM

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CNCAppsJames

#30
October 08, 2025, 07:14 AM
The entire length of the Biden Administration there were FBI plants at every major conservative gathering. It's to be expected. The real question is what was their level of participation and involvement? Was it merely observe and report, was it to encourage and incite unlawful behavior, or was it full blown planning?

I suspect we may never know. 

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mowens

#31
October 08, 2025, 08:10 AM
Quote from: neurosis on October 08, 2025, 01:01 AMYou don't buy in to the 174 planted riot inciting FBI agents, do you?






I don't know anything about it.

Do you think the attempt to establish the Capitol Hill Autonomis Zone was an act of insurrection?
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CNCAppsJames

#32
October 08, 2025, 08:23 AM
Quote from: mowens on October 08, 2025, 08:10 AMDo you think the attempt to establish the Capitol Hill Autonomis Zone was an act of insurrection?
Until there is a single charge of "insurrection", it cannot be that. No matter how may times people chant "insurrection", it isn't going to make it one.

Merritt Garland KNEW he would be unable to get a conviction so he chose to prosecute the lesser crimes which had a much lower burden of proof to meet in order to obtain convictions.   

#NotOneSingleChargeOfInsurrection

#NoNotOne

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neurosis

#33
October 08, 2025, 08:29 AM Last Edit: October 08, 2025, 08:34 AM by neurosis
Quote from: mowens on October 08, 2025, 08:10 AMDo you think the attempt to establish the Capitol Hill Autonomis Zone was an act of insurrection?

Do you think that a judge, who was appointed by Trump, preventing Trump from once again breaking the law, is insurrection? According to Trump, it is. Yet a very blatant and obvious attempt by right wing extremists, to prevent the certification of an election, according to you and some others, isn't?

To me, I don't care what label you want to put on it. Anyone who forced their way in to the Capitol that day should still be in prison.
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I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

beej

#34
October 08, 2025, 08:38 AM
Quote from: CNCAppsJames on October 08, 2025, 08:23 AMUntil there is a single charge of "insurrection", it cannot be that. No matter how may times people chant "insurrection", it isn't going to make it one.

That doesn't get stated enough. I hated what happened on J6. But if the Democrats who prosecuted them didn't think it met the level of insurrection, the rest of the party ought to quit calling it that.
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neurosis

#35
October 08, 2025, 08:42 AM
Quote from: beej on October 08, 2025, 08:38 AMThat doesn't get stated enough. I hated what happened on J6. But if the Democrats who prosecuted them didn't think it met the level of insurrection, the rest of the party ought to quit calling it that.

How many times have you seen people get charged with lesser crimes than were actually committed because the lesser crime was easier to prove in the court of law? Isn't that common practice?

I'm not an attorney or prosecutor, so I'm not qualified to determine whether the crime here was an "insurrection" or not, but neither is anyone else on this forum?  Even though we do like to lean on our google law degrees  :D
I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

beej

#36
October 08, 2025, 08:45 AM
Quote from: neurosis on October 08, 2025, 08:42 AMHow many times have you seen people get charged with lesser crimes than were actually committed because the lesser crime was easier to prove in the court of law? Isn't that common practice?

I'm not an attorney or prosecutor, so I'm not qualified to determine whether the crime here was an "insurrection" or not, but neither is anyone else on this forum?  Even though we do like to lean on our google law degrees  :D

yes but as James pointed out, we are not leaning on google law degrees we are leaning on the wisdom of Merrick Garland, if you want to call it that. Not even the leaders of any of the groups were charged with insurrection. Nobody. not one. At some point you have to look at all the evidence and say, Yeah, I called that wrong.
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neurosis

#37
October 08, 2025, 08:51 AM
Quote from: beej on October 08, 2025, 08:45 AMAt some point you have to look at all the evidence and say,

When you look at all the evidence, what do you say?

What do you call an angry mob chanting "hang Mike Pence", the vice president, while forcing their way through police guards in to the Capitol with the goal of preventing the certification of an election?
I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

mowens

#38
October 08, 2025, 08:54 AM Last Edit: October 08, 2025, 08:56 AM by mowens
Everything on here is an opinion. You know I'm not a Trump fan. My opinion is that this was not a serious attempt to overthrow the government any more than the "autonomous zone" was or the George Floyd riots, even though they did far more damage and hurt more people. This was a riot that happened to take place in Washington DC

Like I already said, if this was a serious attempt at insurrection people would have died. In my opinion.
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beej

#39
October 08, 2025, 08:57 AM
Quote from: neurosis on October 08, 2025, 08:51 AMWhen you look at all the evidence, what do you say?

What do you call an angry mob chanting "hang Mike Pence", the vice president, while forcing their way through police guards in to the Capitol with the goal of preventing the certification of an election?


If I answer that question then I am giving you my google law degree answer, which as you just pointed out isn't worth much. Risking that... Organization: Insurrections are generally organized and armed uprisings, not simply individual or mob violence.

but to reiterate, It's not what I think. it's what the legal establishment thinks, and I have to say that the legal establishment at this time was so inflamed by what happened, it's hard to believe that they wouldn't try to reach the highest legal definition possible.

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neurosis

#40
October 08, 2025, 09:02 AM
Quote from: beej on October 08, 2025, 08:57 AMIf I answer that question then I am giving you my google law degree answer, which as you just pointed out isn't worth much. Risking that... Organization: Insurrections are generally organized and armed uprisings, not simply individual or mob violence.

What is the difference between insurrection and seditious conspiracy?


"Seditious conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) requires an agreement between two or more people to use force to overthrow the government, oppose its authority, or prevent the execution of laws. It focuses on the planning and intent, not just speech, and carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison.

Insurrection (18 U.S.C. § 2383) involves actual acts of rebellion—such as inciting, engaging in, or supporting violent uprising against U.S. authority. It does not require a conspiracy and can be committed by an individual. Conviction brings up to 10 years in prison and disqualification from holding public office.

In essence, seditious conspiracy is about plotting to use force, while insurrection is about carrying it out."
I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

beej

#41
October 08, 2025, 09:07 AM
Quote from: neurosis on October 08, 2025, 09:02 AMWhat is the difference between insurrection and seditious conspiracy?


"Seditious conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) requires an agreement between two or more people to use force to overthrow the government, oppose its authority, or prevent the execution of laws. It focuses on the planning and intent, not just speech, and carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison.

Insurrection (18 U.S.C. § 2383) involves actual acts of rebellion—such as inciting, engaging in, or supporting violent uprising against U.S. authority. It does not require a conspiracy and can be committed by an individual. Conviction brings up to 10 years in prison and disqualification from holding public office.

In essence, seditious conspiracy is about plotting to use force, while insurrection is about carrying it out."


I really don't know. I guess, I really don't spend a lot of time with my extra thoughts on insurrection or seditious conspiracy. I feel like that is a virtue... ;D

any answer that I could give you would just be what you've already googled. But I stand by my original statement that if the Biden Administration, who tried to charge Trump under "RICO laws" didn't call it insurrection, it wasn't insurrection.
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neurosis

#42
October 08, 2025, 09:15 AM
Quote from: beej on October 08, 2025, 09:07 AMI really don't know. I guess, I really don't spend a lot of time with my extra thoughts on insurrection or seditious conspiracy. I feel like that is a virtue...

I had to ask because I feel like people are arguing over semantics.

There were seditious conspiracy charges. They knew they had enough evidence to convict. The difference is the plotting/planning and the ability to carry it out?
I'll go back to being a conservative, when conservatives go back to being conservative.

beej

#43
October 08, 2025, 09:17 AM
Quote from: neurosis on October 08, 2025, 09:15 AMI had to ask because I feel like people are arguing over semantics.

There were seditious conspiracy charges. They knew they had enough evidence to convict. The difference is the plotting/planning and the ability to carry it out?

If that's the case then I'd have to agree. Those people don't represent me, and I really don't have any feelings of empathy toward them.
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Bucky Cornstarch

#44
October 08, 2025, 09:31 AM
Quote from: CNCAppsJames on October 08, 2025, 07:14 AMThe entire length of the Biden Administration there were FBI plants at every major conservative gathering. It's to be expected. The real question is what was their level of participation and involvement? Was it merely observe and report, was it to encourage and incite unlawful behavior, or was it full blown planning?

I suspect we may never know.

:coffee:

Proof that those 3 beers that you had when you were 14 (and can't stop telling the world about) did indeed damage your brain permanently.

May we all be glad you're sober.
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