Right to die?

[Smit]

Moving away from Trump for a change of pace...

Not many people reach their late 60s without knowing somebody who has suffered horribly in the last stages of their lives.

I had a good friend who died from cancer after a long illness. The last days, which lasted months, was awful. At the end a good day for him was a day with less pain than worse days.

Both New York and Illinois have recently passed a "right to die" bill, making 13 states who have passed it now.

I think it's the right thing to do.

Excerpt:
Hochul to sign NY Medical Aid in Dying Act legalizing assisted suicide

New York is set to become the 13th state to legalize medically assisted suicide for terminally ill patients, with Gov. Kathy Hochul saying after months of uncertainty that she'll sign the legislation once more safeguards are added.

Hochul, explaining her decision in an op-ed column in the Albany Times Union on Wednesday, Dec. 17, said she was torn on the emotionally charged issue, but had concluded that giving dying patients the choice to end their suffering was compassionate and in keeping with American freedoms.

She addressed ardent opposition by the Catholic Church and others by acknowledging that people of various religious faiths have objected that "deliberately shortening one's life violates the sanctity of life."

"I understand and respect those views," the governor wrote. "But as I have spoken with people tormented by pain, I have come to see this as a matter of individual choice that does not have to be about shortening life but rather about shortening dying. And I do not believe that in every instance condemning someone to excruciating pain and suffering preserves the dignity and sanctity of life."

[SuperHoneyBadger]

You guys are SO behind, 5.1% of our 2024 deaths were medically assisted. Body count is about 15k per year now.

With the cost of American health care, or just for when Gramma is acting up a bit, might be a nice option to have.

As with most progressive policies, if your only rebuttal is based on your faith - you don't speak for the group anymore. Everyone should have a choice, and it's Mother Theresa tier to WANT people to face additional suffering in this life. I'm not saying kill people in their 30s with a boo boo and hurt feelings, but it must be pretty shitty to drop 1% O2 levels per week until you slowly suffocate alone in a hospital bed, because your grandkids don't call anymore, and then drown in your own fluids.

[Surface]

The difference is legal vs moral.

Legality concerns what is permitted by state-enforced rules, while morality involves personal and societal beliefs about right and wrong; the key difference is that legality is objective and enforced by government, whereas morality is subjective and driven by conscience, culture, or religion. This difference sometimes leads to conflicts where an action can be legal (like certain business practices) but considered immoral, or illegal (like civil disobedience) but viewed as morally right, with laws aiming for order and morality for goodness.

Assisted suicide or euthanasia can often be morally justified, but in my opinion, should not be legal. Laws inevitably lead to a slippery slope and blur the lines of morality.

 
But, But, What about pain and suffering, I've heard argued.

Yes, I agree. In those circumstances, it's morally correct to allow the afflicted to end their life, and even help them on their way, but those cases are very rare. Medications can relieve pain. Most pain can be kept under control with medicines. It's rare to have pain that cannot be managed, so it's a poor excuse to justify legalization.

[beej]

Moving away from Trump for a change of pace...

Not many people reach their late 60s without knowing somebody who has suffered horribly in the last stages of their lives.

I had a good friend who died from cancer after a long illness. The last days, which lasted months, was awful. At the end a good day for him was a day with less pain than worse days.

Both New York and Illinois have recently passed a "right to die" bill, making 13 states who have passed it now.

I think it's the right thing to do.

Excerpt:
Hochul to sign NY Medical Aid in Dying Act legalizing assisted suicide

should we get rid of suicide hotlines now, and 48 hour holds?

[Newbeeee™]

Uk the lords (above parliamemt) - someone was pushing for the UK version to include pregnant people (can't say the woman word ) where they have the right to assisted suicide upto 9 months carrying....

Oh...and isn't it strange the US, Canada, UK, Aus etc all pushing this.
All.
At.
The.
Same.
Time.
Coincidence.... huh....

[beej]

I'm not sure that it will happen, but it's not hard to foresee insurance companies getting to a point where they decide that assisted suicide would be cheaper than paying for treatments for some disease, such as Multiple Sclerosis and deciding to not cover treatments.

and then too, why do suicide prevention in prison. I think that a good portion of the population would be all in on just letting, say, Charlie Kirk's assassin off himself. save money. Life means so little.

Right now people think it would be good for the terminally ill, to relieve suffering. But then you have the bi-polar or schizophrenic who suffer, should they then also be allowed? it's already happening in some countries.

what if someone just doesn't want to be a burden to their kids? should it be legal to kill themselves?

But then you get to the point where, Mr Jones and Mr Wilson decided they didn't want to be a burden to their kids so they committed suicide and now, Mr Johnson's kids are frustrated that their own father won't commit suicide. Would it be legal for them to hire someone to talk him into it?

these are the red flags that pop into my head with assisted suicide.

[MIL-TFP-41]

I'd take the option of eating a bullet over late stage dementia or some of the other debilitating diseases I have witnessed. So yea, someone should be able to load the gun for me if it came to that.

[Newbeeee™]

I'd take the option of eating a bullet over late stage dementia or some of the other debilitating diseases I have witnessed. So yea, someone should be able to load the gun for me if it came to that.

The problem then comes....if you leave things too late to do this before you have lost your mind....because when you have, I bet bullet would be the last thing you'd be thinking of.
Which by default means you then have to do it earlier.... but "I feel alright, ish"....
Still, I bet there will be a Gov dept being formed to help out in 3....2....1....

[beej]

The problem then comes....if you leave things too late to do this before you have lost your mind....because when you have, I bet bullet would be the last thing you'd be thinking of.
Which by default means you then have to do it earlier.... but "I feel alright, ish"....
Still, I bet there will be a Gov dept being formed to help out in 3....2....1....

not to mention a company called, something like, "Planned Life Hood" that does the opposite of life and lobbies congress to be able to assist anyone that asks for suicide at any point of life for any reason what so ever. and then might even lobby to do assissted suicides for teens without parental consent.

nah, nevermind. that will never happen. 

crazy emoji in 3...2....1

[ghuns]

Let me first say, I have nothing but respect for people who work in hospice or other end of life care givers.

But after experiencing end of life care with my grandpa and both in laws, I came away feeling pretty icky over the way it all went down.

They are basically just drugging people up on opiates so they aren't in any pain as they slowly die from dehydration.

Mercifully, grandpa and the FiL went very quickly after the hospice people were called in. But the MiL died like she lived. Stubborn, fighting, and refusing to let go. For almost 3 weeks the hospice staff told us, today is the day. The strain this put on the family was terrible.

There's a pretty fine line to walk between letting someone die and killing them. I can't imagine walking it daily.

I have no answers. I really don't have a point. Just hope I don't end up putting my family through it.

Ah... A point I would make... The wife and I were recently doing our will, estate planning, etc. When the question of who should be put in charge of our medical decisions, should we not be able to make them, she was like, boy kid or girl kid?

I was like, neither. Pick someone besides the kids. Don't put one of them in a position that could alienate them from the other. Pick a brother, sister, niece, nephew, cousin, neighbor, friend, enemy... Basically ANYONE else.

That way if things go south, hopefully it's BOTH of them pissed at someone outside their immediate family and not at each other.

We settled on a niece that we're close to with a track record of making good life decisions. After she agreed, we sat the kids down and explained this. They were cool with it and understood the reasoning.

[SuperHoneyBadger]

and then might even lobby to do assissted suicides for teens without parental consent.

nah, nevermind. that will never happen.

Dying With Dignity Canada. They tried up here to rope in the "mature minor" wording to the MAID program to let 15/16 year olds choose death, and failed. Slippery slope indeed, if "mature minors" can choose to end their own lives, then what else can they legally consent to?

[mowens]

There was a young man that I had cared for when I worked at a group home for disabled adults. He had severe physical and mental disabilities. He was in hospice and the end was near. He was running a high fever. He was unconscious. The hospice nurse came in and gave him a shot, to help him relax she said. He passed shortly after. I've often wondered about that shot. Was it just a sedative? Was it a large dose of opiates? Either way, I am ok with it. He had suffered throughout his life. To my knowledge, no family was there when he passed, only those who had been taking care of him.

[beej]

both of my parents were on hospice prior to death. Those final days are some of the most precious memories I had taking care of them. My parents put up with a lot of shit from me when I was young. And in adulthood they would never let me do something for them where they didn't try to repay me in some way. It was such a blessing to be able to offer something back to them when they needed it, that they could not repay. I wouldnt' trade those days for anything.

My wife has a saying, "Hard doesn't equal bad"  I used to hate it when she would spring that saying on me, but it really is a true statement.

[Newbeeee™]

I was like, neither. Pick someone besides the kids. Don't put one of them in a position that could alienate them from the other.

UK they made it sound good by calling it the Liverpool pathway.
We were told it was humane and the best thing for FiL but it was not explained that basically, it's starving him to death.

Ref the quoted bit.
Did you both talk with your kids?
I ask because when my Sis passed, i stepped in and removed my parents from everything.
Later....discussion regarding them started and my mother wanted to do what you suggested but i stopped it going further.
I'm power of attorney with Dad over her.
And I'm power of attorney with her over Dad.
Personally it didn't sit well with potential huge responsibility in the hands of someone else.
When my mate was early 20s he had to make the decision to turn off his Dad's life support but as he told me, he couldn't let his Mom do it.
I guess the point I'm trying to say is although you may think you're protecting them, perhaps they would prefer the responsibility as it works both ways - what if someone else turned your machine off before your son was ready?
Dunno...it is difficult for sure.

[Newbeeee™]

both of my parents were on hospice prior to death. Those final days are some of the most precious memories I had taking care of them. My parents put up with a lot of shit from me when I was young. And in adulthood they would never let me do something for them where they didn't try to repay me in some way. It was such a blessing to be able to offer something back to them when they needed it, that they could not repay. I wouldnt' trade those days for anything.

My wife has a saying, "Hard doesn't equal bad"  I used to hate it when she would spring that saying on me, but it really is a true statement.

And reading this puts me in a tail spin again.
Having left the UK 7 years ago for Spain and now just left there and moved to Cyprus, after the 18 month of hell we went through with my Sister's illness, that has knocked the stuffing out of both parents.
Physical, and mental decline.
Both are happy I'm "enjoying myself" and every opportunity the ol chap says "i don't blame you for getting away from here".... but if nature takes the path it normally does, i am dreading the future - in fact it gets me depressed thinking about it because I'm no longer 10 minutes away....