(Tungsten) carbide prices

[Brian]

Had a chat with my local Mitsubishi rep today, and we got onto the topic of WC prices....

Per a quick Google search on "Ammonium Paratungstate or APT global prices historical":

"Global Ammonium Paratungstate (APT) prices surged to record highs in 2025–2026, driven by Chinese supply restrictions, jumping from ~$340/mtu in early 2025 to over $1,100/mtu by Feb 2026. Following a 2022 average of ~$342/mtu, prices experienced significant, rapid, and sustained upward pressure due to tighter export controls and mine-side shortages."

Curious to hear what folks are seeing out there.

It's interesting that I see random folks dropping by the shop (much more frequently, and boy are they stubborn) offering cash to buy whatever we've got on hand.

[Zoffen]

Jokes on them. I only use HSS in my shop!

[Brian]

Jokes on them. I only use HSS in my shop!

Keep it real! Side lock holders, too!

And don't forget-real men don't just program manually, they do it standing up at the control!

[Brian]

My Mitsubishi rep forwarded this link earlier-enjoy.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Scrap prices are through the roof. We are seeing $20+/lb. Compare that to a few years ago when it was $6/lb.
You know that $50 3/8 you are using today? I've been told to expect to pay $80/$90 for that same tool by the end of the year. And 2 years ago that tool was $35.

yea tariff's!!!!!

[SuperHoneyBadger]

My Mitsubishi rep forwarded this link earlier-enjoy.

Very cool video, I have not seen that channel before, looks like a lot of great info.

[Brian]

Scrap prices are through the roof. We are seeing $20+/lb. Compare that to a few years ago when it was $6/lb.
You know that $50 3/8 you are using today? I've been told to expect to pay $80/$90 for that same tool by the end of the year. And 2 years ago that tool was $35.

yea tariff's!!!!!

Does anyone here know what percentage of a cutting tool's cost is material vs. labor input?

For that matter, how much of the recent price increases are a result of market forces vs. tariff-related effects?

[Zoffen]

I heard that tools made on cutter grinders ran by children wearing flipflops in 3rd world countries cut way better....

[MIL-TFP-41]

China's reaction to the tariffs was not just to sit back and continue selling with just the tariff cost added. At the same time tariff's happened, they decided to limit supply. So now you have less supply with higher tariff's added. besides being the top producers of tungsten, China also started to import tungsten from mines they developed in Kazakhstan.

In short, China controls the market. Reacting to tariffs by limiting supply put them in the drivers seat on this one.

[jstell]

Scrap prices are through the roof. We are seeing $20+/lb. Compare that to a few years ago when it was $6/lb.

Now compared to just a few weeks ago, approaching $50/lb. (Sandvik @ $100/kilo = $48/lb.)

[MIL-TFP-41]

Now compared to just a few weeks ago, approaching $50/lb. (Sandvik @ $100/kilo = $48/lb.)

I just saw that this week also. Tools are going to get very expensive. Put places out of business expensive. Tariffs combined with China reducing mining quota's and limiting exports is going to kill a few businesses.

[jstell]

I just saw that this week also. Tools are going to get very expensive. Put places out of business expensive.

I have had some other crap to deal with around the house this week, but it occurred to me that it's time to send an email off to my representatives to encourage them to prioritize a remedy.  We're not even talking building blocks like aluminum and other raw material price instability because of tariffs and pissing off our trading partners.
This is like saying "Build Back America!" but making all the tradesmen buy those infamous gov't $200 hammers just to get started, while at the same time making only half as many of the needed hammers available.

[Brian]

I just saw that this week also. Tools are going to get very expensive. Put places out of business expensive. Tariffs combined with China reducing mining quota's and limiting exports is going to kill a few businesses.

Anybody here want to share what % of a job's cost is cutting tools, or maybe what it is as % of gross sales? Any ideas?

I'm not trying to make light of this, but am trying to understand this rationally. I had the same thoughts during Covid when material pricing (or even availability/leadtime) got sideways for a while.

[jstell]

what % of a job's cost is cutting tools

Depends on if you're cutting aluminum or Inconel.
Aluminum machine, my 1/4" and 1/2" endmill might stay in the machine for weeks or months prototyping.  Production might run 100 hours (on the 1/2" endmill) and not even need comp adjusted more than once to hold +/-.002 for several weeks.
OTOH I had a job in 316SS that started out life as 1"plate ~ 8" x 11" and turned into kind of a flat-bottom boat shape, basically 3-5mm thick with some steps pockets fins and a couple thru holes.  A 9/16" HSS drill would last about 15 parts.  1/2" HSS (coated) corncob roughers would maybe last a part.  If they weren't coated it would take two, one for each side roughing.  The uncoated ones were ~ $28.  A variety of carbide finishers from 1/2" down to 3/32" or 1/16" for different features would last between 4 or 5 and 15+ parts, depending on which features.  It has been a while, so this is 'as best I remember'.  But I think the original tooling was ~ $1100 to make 5 or 6 parts, and subsequent runs was ~$400-600 for 7-9 parts.  They were pretty expensive parts, a little over half day of cut time each.  I don't have direct knowledge of pricing and there was some other added-value stuff with the parts, but figure at least $500-600 machine time and around $100 for material at that time IIRC.  Tooling per part ~ $80 average.
Tooling expense total for a year biased more towards aluminum and plastic, with a little stainless here and there, ~ $40k, including coolant and some other miscellaneous shop supplies.  Not sure total revenue for just the machine shop, maybe half a million at the time? 

TLDR:
~ 4% of job cost in a more aluminum/plastic and less stainless/titanium job shop. 
~ 10% as more stainless is introduced.  More exotic materials, more (and more expensive) tooling needed.

[Brian]

TLDR:
~ 4% of job cost in a more aluminum/plastic and less stainless/titanium job shop. 
~ 10% as more stainless is introduced.  More exotic materials, more (and more expensive) tooling needed.

Yeah, I get it! I just ran a quick report on last year's cutting tool expenditures as a % of gross sales, and it's ~2%. One man/2 machine (now 3) shop cutting ~1/2->2/3's AL with the balance being SS, brass and plastic.

I'm not unconcerned with cutting tool costs, but I'd be thrilled if I could put a meaningful dent in costs like health insurance!