Are the Dem/Rep Party's changing?

[beej]

I'm curious about your opinions.

It seems to me like the party's are starting to change in what could be a huge transition. In my local county, there is a very strong sentiment of Pro Union, Pro Republican.  The Pro Republican thing has been a change in the past 25 years.  Pryor to that we had not a single republican in county office. In the primary elections, if you asked for a republican ballot you could feel the sneers of the election workers as they handed it to you. That has completely changed. Some elected officials who were previously on the democratic ticket now have switched to republican just to keep their jobs!

I wonder if this will be a nation wide trend.

On the other side of the coin you see big Dem donors (Bezos) doing everything he can to keep the union out of his company. Police and First responders have already switched parties.  Left leaning and woke CEO's are favoring Chinese interests over Amercan union interests.  More and more of the billionaires that you know from the news vote as democrats.  I can't help but wonder if, in 25 years, the Democrat party will be the party of big business and the Republican party will be pro-union. If that happens, a host of other issues may also change like a domino effect.

[CNCAppsJames]

If the Republican Party could ever articulate a position, Democrats would never win another election. However, that's not the world we live in. But to your point, I have a friend that is President of a Union Local and he's a serious conservative. Obviously he's Pro-Labor, but that said, I think there is a shift coming in certain unions (Teacher's Unions will ALWAYS be in the bag for Dems. I cannot forsee a world where that changes). Think of it the same way you see the Black Vote. Still heavy majority Democrat... however, this last election showed some SERIOUS movement toward Republicans. If we look at Obama's vote percentage as the starting point (... what 95%-ish for D's and 5%-ish for R's) then fast forward to 2020's election where 12-15%-ish depending on which poll you were looking at. While still a rather small percentage, it's not insignificant. I can forsee Firefighter Unions, Law Enforcement Unions, and Trade Unions making the switch. We're probably a few Presidential cycles away form that but it is forseeable. What the Never Trumper R's don't get (or maybe they do and they are just really closet D's) when Trump put the screws to US Companies that offshore jobs, those jobs came back. Something O-Turdbucket said "... would NEVER happen...". We just needed to level the playing field a touch which Trump did QUITE effectively.

D's are going to have a harder and harder time proving to Blacks that they are their Party with all of their policies that are destructive to their communities and their desired way of life (safer communities, better performing schools, better job opportunities, etc...).

D's are (as of right now) effectively playing both sides of the field... in the bag with Tech Giants and Pharmaceuticals all the while being in the bag for Unions. Something will HAVE to give at some point in the not too distant future.

JM2CFWIW

[YoDoug]

The world has changed in terms of the top wealth. It is not realistically possible to get to the top wealth status without a major global enterprise. Thus what is good for the elite wealth of FB, Coke, GE, etc are globalist policies. Which are not good for the American worker. The working class unions are seeing this.

As for the switch of D's and R's, I think what we are seeing is really a three or four party system that is being held down to two parties by the big corp interests and the political ruling class. Just like when the Rinos joined together with the dems's to squash the tea party, they are doing the same to the MAGA wing of the party. Likewise the Dems are in turmoil between the traditional rule (Pelosi, schumer, etc) and the progressive wing. When it is us against them the ultra wealthy and the political ruling class win. When we have more choices the voters win. When a valid third party starts to gain any traction the establishment goes into overdrive to squash it.

[CNCAppsJames]

When a valid third party starts to gain any traction the establishment goes into overdrive to squash it.

Or the 3rd Party Candidate $#!+$ the bed and screws it up for the forseeable future.

:cough:
Ross Perot
:cough:

The 3rd Party Candidates usually seem to always do/say some moronic stuff that just makes them untennable.

[YoDoug]

When a valid third party starts to gain any traction the establishment goes into overdrive to squash it.

Or the 3rd Party Candidate $#!+$ the bed and screws it up for the forseeable future.

:cough:
Ross Perot
:cough:

The 3rd Party Candidates usually seem to always do/say some moronic stuff that just makes them untennable.

Let's be honest, we hold third party candidates to a higher standard. They are supposed to be these savior types. Both Trump and Biden said and did things in the last election that would have gotten a third party candidate thrown out of any serious running, yet we put up with it because they are the lesser of two evils.

[beej]

When a valid third party starts to gain any traction the establishment goes into overdrive to squash it.

Or the 3rd Party Candidate $#!+$ the bed and screws it up for the forseeable future.

:cough:
Ross Perot
:cough:

The 3rd Party Candidates usually seem to always do/say some moronic stuff that just makes them untennable.

yes and tend to be only a slight version different than a candidate that has really bugged them, which makes them pull voters only from a single party.  

A lot of countries have a multi party system and they build the coalitions between2 parties to get a majority after the election. In the US the coalition happens before the election (ie Christian right, 2A and the Free Marketeers.  or the wokes, unions, greens, and ethnicitists)

[CNCAppsJames]

When a valid third party starts to gain any traction the establishment goes into overdrive to squash it.

Or the 3rd Party Candidate $#!+$ the bed and screws it up for the forseeable future.

:cough:
Ross Perot
:cough:

The 3rd Party Candidates usually seem to always do/say some moronic stuff that just makes them untennable.

Let's be honest, we hold third party candidates to a higher standard. They are supposed to be these savior types. Both Trump and Biden said and did things in the last election that would have gotten a third party candidate thrown out of any serious running, yet we put up with it because they are the lesser of two evils evil of two lessers.

Free fiss and what gcode says.  

[Incogneeto]

Ok , so The elephant in the room is that the dems were F'd up and The Repubs sucked wad and did nothing.....Hence.

"Vive La Trump"




While looking at the dems and repubs it's the same as black and white Chicken Shit.

What's the white stuff in Chicken shit?


It's Chicken Shit.

[CNCAppsJames]

Even through Trump was on the Republican ticket, he was probably as close to an Independent as we've had in my lifetime... at least from my seats anyway. I never saw him as the "savior of the Republican Party" as some have, though it is entirely he may do exactly that. 12 years of Bushes, 8 years of Barry Hussein, and 8 years of Treason error Clinton took it's toll. Trump sure did a hell of a job reversing some of that bovine excrement of the 90's that has ruined our stateside supply chain.

Hopefully we can get if not Trump again, somebody that understands we HAVE to make more stuff here.

JM2CFWIW

[Jim at Gentex]

Even through Trump was on the Republican ticket, he was probably as close to an Independent as we've had in my lifetime...

Agreed.
When he decided to run he KNEW he had to throw in with either the D's or the R's in order to have a chance to actually win.

Being a businessman his whole life, and making decisions about spending HIS OWN money, and NOT other peoples' money, he became more of a fiscal conservative who probably leaned more toward being socially liberal.  The Republican party was the better fit for him, so that's the way he went.

Later we found that both the establishment Republicans, and almost all Democrats hated his guts, and he STILL managed to get the economy booming.
Many people have said we should run the country like a business, and the Trump Presidency was the closest we have come to doing that.
Like him or not, the US economy reached an all-time high on his watch.

As for the state of the D's and R's today, I hardly see a difference anymore.
Identity politics and simple corruption have been the downfall of the whole system no matter which party is in power.  

[neurosis]

Let's be honest, we hold third party candidates to a higher standard. They are supposed to be these savior types. Both Trump and Biden said and did things in the last election that would have gotten a third party candidate thrown out of any serious running, yet we put up with it because they are the lesser of two evils.

We need rank-choice voting and this problem would solve itself. People would stop voting for the lesser of two evils and actually vote first for the person they thought represented them, and then the lesser of two evils.

If the parties ever split off in to 4 or more,  you'd likely never see another fringe politician elected again on the right or left. There are too many independent voters that are in the middle.

[beej]

Let's be honest, we hold third party candidates to a higher standard. They are supposed to be these savior types. Both Trump and Biden said and did things in the last election that would have gotten a third party candidate thrown out of any serious running, yet we put up with it because they are the lesser of two evils.

We need rank-choice voting and this problem would solve itself. People would stop voting for the lesser of two evils and actually vote first for the person they thought represented them, and then the lesser of two evils.

If the parties ever split off in to 4 or more,  you'd likely never see another fringe politician elected again on the right or left. There are too many independent voters that are in the middle.

I watched the Ranked choice thing in the NYC mayor fiasco.  I don't want nothing to do with that.

[neurosis]

I watched the Ranked choice thing in the NYC mayor fiasco. I don't want nothing to do with that.

They adopted it in Alaska and seem to like it there.

[gcode]

Hillary 3.0
https://victorygirlsblog.com/are-democrats-desperate-enough-for-hillary-2024/">https://victorygirlsblog.com/are-democr ... lary-2024/">https://victorygirlsblog.com/are-democrats-desperate-enough-for-hillary-2024/

But back to the question: are the Democrats desperate enough to put Hillary on the top of the ticket again? At this point, I wouldn't put it past them to kneecap Kamala and do it. After all, given the current numbers, Kamala is a guaranteed loss. Could she be convinced to "step aside" by the party leaders? It's possible, especially if they made it clear to her that she wouldn't be given front-runner treatment (and the media, despite their love of Kamala's "intersectionality," has no love for Kamala herself, and would act in the interests of the Democrats keeping power). An open primary would be brutal on Kamala Harris, even worse than last time, all because she IS the vice president. But an open primary would be brutal for Hillary as well, even with the Democrats clearing the field for her. The progressive radical left of the Squad has only grown over the last several years, and having the establishment Democrats basically "fix" the primary in order to make sure Biden beat Bernie was a bitter pill to swallow. I can't see them readily accepting Hillary back as a candidate, not without a fight. And that fight would be an ugly one.

The fact that we can treat the idea of a Hillary Clinton revival comeback tour in 2024 as even a remote possibility screams volumes about the current state of the Democrats, and none of it is good.

[beej]

Hillary 3.0
https://victorygirlsblog.com/are-democrats-desperate-enough-for-hillary-2024/">https://victorygirlsblog.com/are-democr ... lary-2024/">https://victorygirlsblog.com/are-democrats-desperate-enough-for-hillary-2024/

But back to the question: are the Democrats desperate enough to put Hillary on the top of the ticket again? At this point, I wouldn't put it past them to kneecap Kamala and do it. After all, given the current numbers, Kamala is a guaranteed loss. Could she be convinced to "step aside" by the party leaders? It's possible, especially if they made it clear to her that she wouldn't be given front-runner treatment (and the media, despite their love of Kamala's "intersectionality," has no love for Kamala herself, and would act in the interests of the Democrats keeping power). An open primary would be brutal on Kamala Harris, even worse than last time, all because she IS the vice president. But an open primary would be brutal for Hillary as well, even with the Democrats clearing the field for her. The progressive radical left of the Squad has only grown over the last several years, and having the establishment Democrats basically "fix" the primary in order to make sure Biden beat Bernie was a bitter pill to swallow. I can't see them readily accepting Hillary back as a candidate, not without a fight. And that fight would be an ugly one.

The fact that we can treat the idea of a Hillary Clinton revival comeback tour in 2024 as even a remote possibility screams volumes about the current state of the Democrats, and none of it is good.

I'm sure that there are a lot of backroom deals going on right now.  Probably in the republican party as well.