So it's official

Brian · May 29, 2022, 07:58 PM

Quote from: TSmcam on May 29, 2022, 07:50 PMHowever, when I got on onboard with TopSolid, I made the mistake of trying to use it like Mastercam. Once I forced myself to "unlearn" and then re-approach TopSolid with a clean slate, I realised how good it was, especially the full integration.

It's interesting to see how our "experience" can be both an asset and a hindrance all at the same time! Coming from V6 of TS, V7 was a totally different animal! I was already used to the integration, but the programs are almost completely different aside from that.

I think many folks would be surprised to see how useful it is to have a nice parametric assembly modeler to work with even if they think they're "only doing programming."

Brian · May 29, 2022, 08:08 PM

...and I'm curious to hear what you thought of the PDM when you first started using TS...friend or foe?

TSmcam · May 29, 2022, 09:47 PM

Good point. Friend or Foe?

The jury is out for me. I find it probably slightly more of a foe at the moment, but that is more because I don't really require the power of the PDM at the moment.

What is really good though, is the ability to pick up a folder, and all its contents, and just move it whereever you want in the PDM. Or rename it. And all the relations update accordingly.

Brian · May 29, 2022, 10:06 PM

"....but that is more because I don't really require the power of the PDM at the moment."

I don't think I was intimidated by the PDM initially, but didn't really understand the upside of it either. Even now I'll still find myself wondering where I put something, only to remember that I can just do a search on some fragment of a file name and find it! (Doh!) Or have a look at previous major or minor revs of some fixture I'm designing. Even though I was familiar with the PDM concepts, I kinda had to develop new habits to make better use of it.

One of the training guides goes into PDM stuff in a bit of detail, and occasionally I'll go back and reread it. I give them high marks for not making it awkward to use, but perhaps because of that, it's easy to overlook the (potential) benefits it offers and as a result not learn how to use it at all!

Brian · May 29, 2022, 10:13 PM

I'll admit that I had no prior experience with a PDM of any kind, and thus have no basis for comparison, but consider this to be a useful tool even in my use case (single/non-networked user, doing mostly "just" programming, with a little design work on occasion).

Did you use the PDM at all when you were using UG?

neurosis · May 30, 2022, 07:25 AM

Quote from: Newbeeee™ on May 29, 2022, 11:47 PMBy memory, THIS was the reason Mcam wanted to push for locked posts.

I thought initially it was more for pirate deterrence.

I'm glad that they put the post on a tech exchange rather than just locking them out. It's not 100%, but it does help.

JParis · May 30, 2022, 07:27 AM

Quote from: neurosis on May 30, 2022, 07:25 AMI'm glad that they put the post on a tech exchange rather than just locking them out. It's not 100%, but it does help.

lol, no it doesn't do much, I know they gotta try....trust me when I tell you everything available on the Tech Exchange is openly available if you know where to look for it...

CNCAppsJames · May 30, 2022, 09:57 AM

Not a TS specific complaint but an integration complaint (CATIA was the specific package). I had probably a good 90 hours into a program in CATIA. The part CAD got revealed up by an engineer and destroyed about 45-50 hours worth of work. Something the buggers at Dassauult told us would never happen. I was less than a year into my my painful journey into CATIA CAM, so it could have very well been the way I linked Something or didn't link something. Regardless, that would have NEVER happened in <insert favorite CAM product>. Only in an Integra CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM package is that possible.

JM2CFWIW

TSmcam · May 30, 2022, 01:03 PM

Quote from: CNCAppsJames on May 30, 2022, 09:57 AMNot a TS specific complaint but an integration complaint (CATIA was the specific package). I had probably a good 90 hours into a program in CATIA. The part CAD got revealed up by an engineer and destroyed about 45-50 hours worth of work. Something the buggers at Dassauult told us would never happen. I was less than a year into my my painful journey into CATIA CAM, so it could have very well been the way I linked Something or didn't link something. Regardless, that would have NEVER happened in <insert favorite CAM product>. Only in an Integra CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM package is that possible.

JM2CFWIW

Indeed James, that is a good argument against integrated CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM. Something in the CAD stage can mess up the CAM. That was always one of my thoughts in the old(er) days.

However, on the flip side of that, when you have an extremely complex part, and the engineer makes a major change, at least in TopSolid, the updating is seamless. Sure, there are glitches sometimes, but nothing where the whole toolpath is nuked. I experience the speed of updating on a daily basis. I know some of the parts I have worked on, if I did it in the Tolland app, would have been a lot of work to update.

TSmcam · May 30, 2022, 01:05 PM

Quote from: Brian on May 29, 2022, 10:13 PMI'll admit that I had no prior experience with a PDM of any kind, and thus have no basis for comparison, but consider this to be a useful tool even in my use case (single/non-networked user, doing mostly "just" programming, with a little design work on occasion).

Did you use the PDM at all when you were using UG?

No, I never used the PDM with UG. Looking back, it would have been handy for the work I was doing, but I was very green to high end CAD/CAM software back then, and support was extremely minimal back then.

Brian · May 30, 2022, 01:44 PM

Quote from: TSmcam on May 30, 2022, 01:03 PMHowever, on the flip side of that, when you have an extremely complex part, and the engineer makes a major change, at least in TopSolid, the updating is seamless.

Hi TSmcam: Are you referring to Compare & Replace (on imported data) in TS, or making changes in CAD inside of TS and having it update CAM? Or both/either?

I've gotta say-Compare & Replace in TS7 is now finally a really useful tool (in 6 it just didn't work that well, unfortunately).

Brian · May 30, 2022, 01:49 PM

Something that's handy about the PDM is being able to go back to a previous rev of a file if needed (I changed my mind about something or hosed up something or other....). It took me a little while till I got used to that and started to take advantage of it.

I don't have any other PDM experience except for what's baked into TS7, so I can't compare it to what else is out there, but it's a helpful tool so far.

TSmcam · May 30, 2022, 01:57 PM

Quote from: Brian on May 30, 2022, 01:44 PMHi TSmcam: Are you referring to Compare & Replace (on imported data) in TS, or making changes in CAD inside of TS and having it update CAM? Or both/either?

I've gotta say-Compare & Replace in TS7 is now finally a really useful tool (in 6 it just didn't work that well, unfortunately).

I'm referring to making changes in CAD inside of TS. However, you are right about compare and replace. For the most part, I find that works really well for imported models. I've experienced the odd glitch, but mostly it works really well.

I dont have any other PDM experience other than TS, so I am the same in terms of comparing it to anything else. Probably the biggest issue I have faced, is when importing a package from a customer, and getting a revision error. That can basically stall the whole import process. I've encountered this mainly with family documents.

neurosis · May 31, 2022, 04:36 PM

Quote from: TSmcam on May 29, 2022, 06:26 PMFirstly, TopSolid's target isn't larger shops, it is all kinds of shops. At least from my perspective it is. I deal with France directly, and with the person I deal with, we see no difference between a small shop and a large shop.

Just for the record, I was talking exclusively about the US reseller. I don't deal with France so have no idea what their goals are as far as future customers. I don't want to put words in to anyone's mouth so I want to be careful what I say, but he more or less admitted to me that their business model wasn't small shop friendly and that they were trying to address that by offering packages that were more tailored to smaller shops.

After listening to what he had to say, I started to realize that what he was talking about wouldn't have worked for us at all.

TSmcam · May 31, 2022, 10:14 PM

Quote from: neurosis on May 31, 2022, 04:36 PMJust for the record, I was talking exclusively about the US reseller. I don't deal with France so have no idea what their goals are as far as future customers. I don't want to put words in to anyone's mouth so I want to be careful what I say, but he more or less admitted to me that their business model wasn't small shop friendly and that they were trying to address that by offering packages that were more tailored to smaller shops.

After listening to what he had to say, I started to realize that what he was talking about wouldn't have worked for us at all.

Actually, good point. The market(s) are certainly different, the world over. I would even go so far as to say the demands of the product, and the customers, world wide differ somewhat

And that interpretation about TopSolids target was purely my own, based from what I have been told, and heard.

They do have a smaller shop product, that is actually pretty good. No PDM, and certainly capable.