Starting a poll

[Sharles]

back on topic....as with most topics, it's a lot more complicated than either side wants to admit. I support the 2A, but not unfettered access. For those on the Right who think voting laws/restrictions and identity rules are reasonable (and I agree), I'm not sure why the same logic doesn't apply to this, also, constitutionally protect right. As my wife and I are dealing with mental health issue, though, I take special exception to the blanket laws that deny people with those issues AND their families from having guns. Stats are pretty clear that those with mental health issues are more likely to be victims than be murderous killers. It's more likely that people with anger issues are going to go on gun rampages than people suffering from other common mental health issues.

[mayday]

no locks on this
I'm all in for Zoob
Native Americans got every right to anything as far as Im concernd.
smit-head is on ice

[neurosis]

Lmfao
 This is sounding more like the Machinists page on Farcebook 😂.

I left that facebook group a couple of years back.   It was pretty good when it started but turned in to a giant shit show.    I'm friends with one of the mods on there.

[Zoober]

Locking this and moving it to the outhouse for posterity.

*Edit*
Unlocked and leaving it in the outhouse. Try and keep it a bit more civil.

I could see the steam and the cussing getting worse with every drink.  

[Matthew Hajicek]

I take special exception to the blanket laws that deny people with those issues AND their families from having guns.

Thing is, if you allow the government to decide who does and doesn't get to have certain rights, then the "doesn't get" group will continue to expand unreasonably until it includes everyone except the super-rich and powerful.  People with any mental health issues will be the first group denied 2A rights, after those who have already been denied for using or selling drugs which are now being legalized, and those who have been denied for exercising their rights without first saying "captain may I".  Those who want to completely disarm the common citizen are using "reasonable gun control" ideas as a lever to move closer to their objective and set precedent that the constitution can be ignored.

[Sharles]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=2845 time=1610309057 user_id=57]
Thing is, if you allow the government to decide who does and doesn't get to have certain rights, then the "doesn't get" group will continue to expand unreasonably until it includes everyone except the super-rich and powerful.  People with any mental health issues will be the first group denied 2A rights, after those who have already been denied for using or selling drugs which are now being legalized, and those who have been denied for exercising their rights without first saying "captain may I".  Those who want to completely disarm the common citizen are using "reasonable gun control" ideas as a lever to move closer to their objective and set precedent that the constitution can be ignored.
[/quote]

Matt,
we have an indisputable gun-violence problem. I was intentionally vague because I honestly don't know the answer. There are arguments on each side that are good and reasonable, but when the 'slippery slope' argument is the fallback argument to shut down the discussion, we get nowhere and people continue to die at a rate that, I believe, is sadly way too high.

[Smit]

You know, this isn't really intended to be a discussion about the validity of gun control laws. It's about people claiming the democrats are going to come take their guns. I posted a poll about it a little over 4 years ago when it looked like Clinton was going to win and people were doing the same thing.

The bottom line is people weren't having their guns taken from them. It was fear mongering. And it still is.

Yes. of course there were individuals on a small scale who had their guns taken or were forbidden from having them, sometimes for good reason other times unfairly.

[Matthew Hajicek]

Matt,
we have an indisputable gun-violence problem.

I dispute that.  The left and much of the media wants us to believe that we indisputably have a gun violence problem, that shootings have skyrocketed to record levels in recent years for some magic reason, even though guns have been commonplace in the US for hundreds of years.  The actual statistics don't back that up.  Aside from a small uptick the last couple years, the rates have been trending downward.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/FT_19.08.14_GunDeaths_2.png?w=640">

Suicides do appear to be up a bit lately, but that's not the guns fault. That's a healthcare issue and a societal issue.  I don't count suicides in gun violence, but gun grabbers always do.  They also assume that if a gun is not legally available it won't be illegally available, and that if it isn't available an alternate means won't be available.

Violent crime overall has been plummeting:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/">https://www.statista.com/statistics/191 ... ince-1990/">https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

Aside from this last, extremely unusual year, the US is the safest it's ever been.

[Incogneeto]

[quote="Matthew Hajicek" post_id=2853 time=1610312893 user_id=57]

Matt,
we have an indisputable gun-violence problem.

I dispute that.  The left and much of the media wants us to believe that we indisputably have a gun violence problem, that shootings have skyrocketed to record levels in recent years for some magic reason, even though guns have been commonplace in the US for hundreds of years.  The actual statistics don't back that up.  Aside from a small uptick the last couple years, the rates have been trending downward.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/FT_19.08.14_GunDeaths_2.png?w=640">

Suicides do appear to be up a bit lately, but that's not the guns fault. That's a healthcare issue and a societal issue.  I don't count suicides in gun violence, but gun grabbers always do.  They also assume that if a gun is not legally available it won't be illegally available, and that if it isn't available an alternate means won't be available.

Violent crime overall has been plummeting:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/">https://www.statista.com/statistics/191 ... ince-1990/">https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

Aside from this last, extremely unusual year, the US is the safest it's ever been.
[/quote]

and this is My problem with Sharles  he post his opinion as Factual.
Much like his claim to be Conservative.
He will take a story he read ( Parler Deplatformed) and Run with it.
Now he Claims to be a Climate Change advocate, A Mental Health Advocate and Now a Gun Advocate.

But yet a Trump Supporter. Ppppfffft

[Zoober]

Ima stick with my initial response. Our guns were taken, and our land and freedom followed. By Democrats.
This wasn't in Clinton's years. Not Bush.
It was 1830 to 1850. Not exactly the stone ages.
Seventy years ago. The same timeframe that BLM uses for slavery claims. If you don't think the Democrats of today won't follow suit, you are blind.
If BML Is afraid of white supremacy, I'm afraid of the Democrats taking my guns.
Smit, you can call history a twist of logic all you want.
You'll still be wrong. Trust the science. And history.

[gcode]

Let's not forget the Dem's banned assault weopns once already.
It stands to reason they will do so again
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban">//https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

[gcode]

Let's not forget the Dem's banned assault weopons once already.
It stands to reason they will do so again
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban">//https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

[Sharles]

and this is My problem with Sharles  he post his opinion as Factual.
Much like his claim to be Conservative.
He will take a story he read ( Parler Deplatformed) and Run with it.
Now he Claims to be a Climate Change advocate, A Mental Health Advocate and Now a Gun Advocate.

But yet a Trump Supporter. Ppppfffft

I don't really understand your problem with me other than for some reason you have decided to be an ass about anything, absolutely anything, I say. And your reading comprehension is so bad that I struggle whether to correct the record or figure the other guys can see the half truths you are spewing.
1). I don't claim to be a far-right conservative, but conservative leaning nevertheless. I know in this partisan environment that makes me a 'rino' to purists, but that's their problem not mine as the polls make pretty clear that 31% of Americans claim to be R's and 31% D's and so that makes the 36% of us independents the real king makers, not the purists like yourself.
2) You seem stuck on your inability to understand my claim that Parler was to be deplatformed at 11:59  last night simply because it wasn't offline the moment you first read what I said. Even after I clarified my original statement for you, you continue to act like you won some huge argument with me.
3) I am not a Trump supporter and never have been, but again you ability to comprehend what I say gets to the point of me wondering if it's even worth me trying to clarify since you seem unable and unwilling to accept what I say, but instead reinterpret it thru your partisan lens. What I have repeatedly said is I never voted for Trump even though I typically prefer his policies over those of the Left, but not on all issues.
4) Climate change advocate: hardly. But again, you seem to live in an alternate reality where I say one thing and you take it to mean something else. Does reading Parler affect everyone like this or are you an anomaly: sadly, as I read more and more I'm afraid you aren't an anomaly, and that's really bad for the health of our country. Russian hoax delusions on the Left. QANON and Trump-won delusionists on the Right, sigh..
5) as for mental health...hell, yes. I will take anyone on in that area. My entire life has been fucked up by my wife's issues. I love her. She is the one and only woman I have EVER been with, but that doesn't mean my 32-year marriage with her hasn't been one of pain and heartbreak trying to fulfill my vows to love her 'for better or for worse, in sickness and in health'.  BUT I'm desperately trying to find a win/win for us...and so I work with every ounce in me to help her heal so that some day...maybe...we can both have a satisfying relationship...so if you want to take me on when it comes to mental health, don't expect me to back down, and you better have YOUR facts corrects...and don't give me the 'biochemical model of mental health' drivel that has been cooked up by Big Pharma and their psychiatrist collaborators to rape the world for profit while preying on desperate trauma victims and their families.
6)Gun advocate: again, where is your ability to comprehend? Do you even attempt to listen to what others say or do you simply see a few words and then jump to conclusions based upon your own perspective? I would guess it's the latter rather than the former. I support basic 2A rights, but NOT unilateral rights...but I guess that kind of nuance is lost on you. It all or nothing for you partisans: well I refuse to be forced in to simplistic, black and white paradigms.
7) Finally, you really are being an ass and draining the enjoyment I used to have coming on this website. We ALL give opinions here, sometimes stating them a little more forcefully than the facts warrant. When guys point out where my statements don't line up with the facts, I try to be the first to admit my fault. I'm sorry I don't fact check all my statements better, but if that were the litmus test for what is allowed to be posted on this forum, my guess is our poor moderators would do nothing other than remove comments all day long. When I see your first apology for your half-baked conspiracy theories, I'll start to worry a little more about your feelings on my statements.

[neurosis]

draining the enjoyment I used to have coming on this website. We ALL give opinions here, sometimes stating them a little more forcefully than the facts warrant.

This has been a bad week for temper flares    

Hopefully once were past the inauguration things will calm down a little and we move on to complaining about the new admins policy.    

Sharles, don't take anything too personally. We're all opinionated old turds and this is just a forum. I enjoy reading your posts. We don't have many people who offer an alternative perspective.   Being in that minority is going to lend yourself to some criticism. We have a pretty small group on here who aren't full conservative minded.  

[Incogneeto]

TLDR.