What is a "Programmer"

[JParis]

Thanks for the lesson guys, for everyone at home, don't hang your 9 inch out at work..

I actually want to hire a youngster to teach but that has to come 2nd as I don't have approval to hire for that role as yet. It is however on my radar...so a youngster is more than likely going to get a chance here some time in the new year.

[CADCAM396]

good points on here but there are always exceptions.
one place I worked at had a programmer that was very good at good paths, just sucked at the machining basics. he and I as setup person made a fabulous team. after every setup once i had the program at the machine dialed in I gave him my laundry list (some times many pages long). he would go back and incorporate them into his source code. at that shop we posted all code every time we ran even a repeat part. he was maticulous.
one day he very sincearly stated that i was the best machinist he had ever worked for. i was flatered cause he had been around many more shops than i.
some times it takes a well oiled team.

[JParis]

good points on here but there are always exceptions.

There are as previously noted 

[TylerBeer]

I'm pretty competant as a cnc programmer as long as someone else runs it!

[CNCAppsJames]

Can't forget the ads for a "CNC Programmer", then when you show up for the interview they are REALLY hiring someone for the shop floor but can't get anybody to answer that ad. Happened to me on several occasions in the 90's. Can't imagine it doesn't still go on because there's a shortage of everything in the industry.

[Flycut]

I've had jobs where I programmed day in day out and hardly ever touched the machines.
I've also had plenty of jobs where I am responsible to keep certain machines running.
Even if I spend most of my days at the machines I still a programmer.

[HTM01]

I actually want to hire a youngster to teach but that has to come 2nd as I don't have approval to hire for that role as yet. It is however on my radar...so a youngster is more than likely going to get a chance here some time in the new year.

that will be one lucky kid John

[JParis]

that will be one lucky kid John

That's TBD...much will be up to the person and their level of commit.

[gcode]

That's TBD...much will be up to the person and their level of commit.

Yup.. some kids will fight tooth and nail for an opportunity
and others will spit in your eye while you feed them with a golden spoon.
I can think of a half dozen boss's sons who were handed the world on a plate.
Not one made anything of themselves. In fact one was such a low life loser he took
his father down with him when he crashed and burned.

As I've replaced work stations over the years I clean the old one up, reformat it
and install the current version of HLE. Then give it to a youngster at work who's expressed
an interest and shown some aptitude.
I've done that three times in the 15 years I've been at my current job.
Though all three of my candidates were excellent machinists and hard workers
none has put in the work required to be even an entry level trainee programmer.

[Brian]

"Though all three of my candidates were excellent machinists and hard workers
none has put in the work required to be even an entry level trainee programmer."

Things like this always leave me scratching my head, especially when they've proven that they can do other parts of the job well! Do they have some sort of learning disability that they're unaware of (trouble reading, dyslexia that makes it difficult to absorb training material?), not good with computers (seems unlikely for younger folks, but you never know), can't quite get going/procrastination? Just plain laziness?

My last employee (now retired, thankfully) gave me much opportunity to ponder these matters, but I could never quite figure it all out! My pat assessment was that he came to the CNC game late in his career (mid 50's) and had little computer experience (save for surfing the web)....it seemed like we could never quite "get over the hump." He was a skilled manual machinist, and was no dummy generally, but I feel like we just kinda stalled out. I've wondered what I'll do differently next time, but suspect that sometimes you can lead a horse to water, but the rest might be up to them....

The longer I do this business the more I realize how important certain particular skills are, but I think I've really concluded that most important of all is stuff like *attitude* and ability/willingness to learn new stuff...if you've got those in the bag all of the other stuff can happen naturally. I probably need to get better at spotting that trait in others.

[neurosis]

The longer I do this business the more I realize how important certain particular skills are, but I think I've really concluded that most important of all is stuff like *attitude* and ability/willingness to learn new stuff...if you've got those in the bag all of the other stuff can happen naturally. I probably need to get better at spotting that trait in others.

One of the things that I look for that seems to make or break someone new(er) to the trade, is the ability to apply what they've learned on one job to another.  When I see someone struggling on something when they've had to work through a very similar situation on a different job and they can't make that connection, I usually have a more difficult time training them. Some people just seem to have a knack for it naturally.

I think that could also apply to programming?   

[mega]

"Though all three of my candidates were excellent machinists and hard workers
none has put in the work required to be even an entry level trainee programmer."

Things like this always leave me scratching my head, especially when they've proven that they can do other parts of the job well! Do they have some sort of learning disability that they're unaware of (trouble reading, dyslexia that makes it difficult to absorb training material?), not good with computers (seems unlikely for younger folks, but you never know), can't quite get going/procrastination? Just plain laziness?

My last employee (now retired, thankfully) gave me much opportunity to ponder these matters, but I could never quite figure it all out! My pat assessment was that he came to the CNC game late in his career (mid 50's) and had little computer experience (save for surfing the web)....it seemed like we could never quite "get over the hump." He was a skilled manual machinist, and was no dummy generally, but I feel like we just kinda stalled out. I've wondered what I'll do differently next time, but suspect that sometimes you can lead a horse to water, but the rest might be up to them....

The longer I do this business the more I realize how important certain particular skills are, but I think I've really concluded that most important of all is stuff like *attitude* and ability/willingness to learn new stuff...if you've got those in the bag all of the other stuff can happen naturally. I probably need to get better at spotting that trait in others.

The customers I work with own or operate companies where they have a complex, but very repetitive process,
these customers use our software to make these repetitive tasks automated to the point where unskilled labor can use the software.

[Brian]

I think that could also apply to programming? 

Yeah, I'll buy that! I call that "thinking laterally"-the ability to understand that while this particular thing is indeed different from that other thing, there are common features/characteristics/workflows that actually are directly applicable. But, yes, apparently some folks have a hard time seeing that....

[Rstewart]

That's TBD...much will be up to the person and their level of commit.

I would have killed to had something like this.  I had to learn everything from this site right here.  Worked with really great manual machinist, I had to figure out CNC and programming.

Now I've moved on to Manufacturing Eng.  I do miss making parts

[JParis]

I would have killed to had something like this.  I had to learn everything from this site right here.  Worked with really great manual machinist, I had to figure out CNC and programming.

Me too...I learned a ton on my own time AND from the eMC

Now I've moved on to Manufacturing Eng.  I do miss making parts

That's funny, I do not miss it...I was very over standing at a machine and making parts. I will admit, when I put out something that's kinds "trick" yeah, I like watching the machine dance and then it's over...

Now being the Mfg Engineering Manager, I realy hope this one takes everything I can throw at him and runs with it...