How bad SurfCam sucks

[Rstewart]

Now working as a Mfg eng at a pretty large corporation.  Part of my role is writing detailed work instructions so that "anybody" can jump on a machine and produce good parts.
So naturally, I have to dig through their cam files to see what the process is...in Smurfcam. OMG it's like stepping back into widoze 98.  I mean, it outputs decent code but wholly shit, it's archaic.  This is a multi-million dollar operation and what their working with Sucks.  Mastercam ain't everything, but surfcam 2022 compares to MC ver.9

[mkd]

MC9 sp2 was pretty good. Surfcam was better back then.
 Thankfully MC still has their epically obtuse post language to learn in order to change when the coolant comes on.

[gcode]

I didn't even know Surfcam was even around anymore.
Way back in the day a Surfcam shop trying to recruit me gave me a demo version
to check out.
It looked like a sad imitation of Mastercam V9.
I passed on the job offer.
I'm glad I did  as the place eventually melted down with the owners,
two brothers, fighting over who got the bigger piece of the pie.
By the time they got done brawling, there was no pie.

[YoDoug]

For a while there was actually two versions of Surfcam. There was the classic version for existing customers that didn't want to change and then there was the "EdgeCam" version of Surfcam. I think Hexagon did away with the latter and shelved any dev on the Surfcam classic.

[CNCAppsJames]

I used Mastercam posts and MP Master from the early 1990's up until probably 2008-2009 when I started to get a decent handle on CAMplete. I had relatively few issues. The majority of the issues were MY fault. 3, 4 and 5 axis posts. 

Can't speak to anything mote than 4-axis lathe posts for lathes. 

[CNCAppsJames]

When I worked at Mori Seiki BITD (mid-90's), I needed like 4 different posts for I think it was 7 machines... the number is irrelevant. Anyway, CAD/CAM Consulting Services (our local MC dealer) was willing to hook us up, but asked if I was interested in doing them myself. I said of course I was interested. I had some time before I needed them so they hooked me up with the "Post Processor" manual CNC used to publish (V6 era... not X6... V6) so over the course of 3-4 weeks I read the manual pretty much cover to cover (minus the wire EDM stuff) and went to work. One mod at a time, one post at a time. When I had questions CCCS guided me and IIRC I was able to do them all myself. I'm nothing special. I'm not exceptionally smart. Perhaps more tenacious than most but, when people complain about Mastercam posts... it's usually not out of a place of seasoned experience. Complaints about binned 5-Axis posts I get. That does take some vector control away from the programmer, but 9x out of 10, those aren't the complaints. 

Mastercam posts are a cross between C++ and BASIC. If you are capable of understanding fundamental programming structure (variable declarations, variable assignments, order of operations, etc... it is within your realm of having a reasonable handle on modifying your own posts. Rule #1, make a backup of your working post. Rule #2, make one change at a time. Rule #3, see rules 1 and 2. Proceed with caution and you are the ruler of your post processing destiny. 

[mkd]

or you tweak the coolant in a nice LOGICAL spreadsheet (like you can Hypermiil) that wasn't created for the sole purpose of being so obtuse it invariably enriches the resellers.
 Same reason i never gamble in casinos. They're rigged just like MP.  I guess I could read loads of books on counting cards and beat the house at poker. I prefer to not belly up to the table while I laugh at the (mostly) suckers.

[CNCAppsJames]

...  Hypermiil) that wasn't created for the sole purpose of being so obtuse it invariably enriches the resellers.

Ummmmm. That's a lie. That is 100% a complete and totally fabricated lie. Nice try though. :p 

HyperShill PUSHES their post processors. Matter of fact they have tied SO much shit to their posts that software loses a significant amount of it's capabilities if you don't use their posts. So... just take that bullshit somewhere else cuz I ain't buyin'.

Most Mastercam resellers are using Postability or IHS now. Andnthere's only like 5 dealers left in the US. Only slightly exaggerating. 

[TSmcam]

Most Mastercam resellers are using Postability or IHS now. Andnthere's only like 5 dealers left in the US. Only slightly exaggerating.

Yeah, that seems to have happened that way. Our reseller seems to use Postability exclusively, but that is because his lonely brain cell can't handle working on posts Binned posts I always hated, because it took the ability of the user to edit the posts (at least users who knew what they were doing). I understand binning posts to a Hasp for ip protection, but when the post is gutted and filleted before binning, well...meh

I always enjoyed editing my own posts. The MP language is good, and I have done many post processors.

TopSolids posts are kind of multi level. They can be edited at the base level (as long as you have the post editing module), and then on the next level, using C#, you can do a whole lot more. I stay away from the C#, mainly because I haven't got off my ass to learn C# yet.

[CNCAppsJames]

C'mon @mkd Step up

His European overlords will only allow him to run HyperShill so he's out. 😆😅🤣😂

😜

Nothing but love Mason... nothing but love. 😁

[Rstewart]

I didn't even know Surfcam was even around anymore.
Way back in the day a Surfcam shop trying to recruit me gave me a demo version

Back in the late 90's SurfCam resellers were hitting up every shop in this area, turns out it was effective marketing.  Some places refuse to step into the 21 century, lol. 
We build the things that most places around here refuse to.  Very talented programmers and machinists, but we're losing them like crazy to Blue Origin, right down the street.

[TSmcam]

Back in the late 90's SurfCam resellers were hitting up every shop in this area, turns out it was effective marketing.  Some places refuse to step into the 21 century, lol. 

Kind of like down here. However, nowadays every second shop buys a Haas and gets Fusion. There are so many cookie cutter machine shops, with all the same limitations.

[CNCAppsJames]

I'm a bit of an oddball... shocker I know...

I see the Haas/Fusion360 thing as mostly a good thing. Those things lower the barrier to entry into starting a machine shop business. Sure it's limited in a lot of respects but man... we (Industrialized nations) need more machine shops. If they can become successful and grow, then they can migrate into more full featured and accurate machine tools.

JM2CFWIW

[TSmcam]

I'm a bit of an oddball... shocker I know...

I see the Haas/Fusion360 thing as mostly a good thing. Those things lower the barrier to entry into starting a machine shop business. Sure it's limited in a lot of respects but man... we (Industrialized nations) need more machine shops. If they can become successful and grow, then they can migrate into more full featured and accurate machine tools.

JM2CFWIW

LOL, we're all oddballs in one form or another 

Yes, I see where it can be good for the industry, but it also lowers the bar. I see most of these Haas/Fusion shops then thinking that all machines and software should be cheap/free. Which then makes other vendors begin to think "well, if they wont pay for the development, whats the point of developing". Granted, some shops realise the "gotta pay to play" mantra. But there are a lot that dont.

Hopefully you're right Otherwise it will get pretty boring LOL