Not a bad interview? Russell Brand & Sam Harris DISAGREE: Trump, Religion &

[mkd]

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[neurosis]

It was indeed a dumb comment put back into context of obfuscating his guilt and the fact that he is living in a fantasy land, yeah, guys become a waste of space.
 The difference with trump and Alex Jones and Tucker (nice that you choose to group them together) are they a right far more than wrong.
 TDS is real.

You say things that sound a little made up. Obfuscating what guilt?

If you take the entire section from his interview, what he said may have been dumb, and I say it's dumb because if you use the same theory regarding gun control we can see that it doesn't make a difference, but what he said, unless taken out of context, was to make a bigger point.  I'm sure you'd disagree with the point, but it's that if it were children dying rather than the elderly, people wouldn't have been so quick to take the charge against covid measures. Whether that be vaccinations, masks, what ever.  I think he's wrong on that point, but it's not a wacko comment like what you'd hear from someone like Alex Jones.

You obviously have a hard-on for Sam.    That's fine. There are a lot of things that I could see you not liking about him.  His views on religion being the first. That's an assumption on my part. Another is that he doesn't have a lot of nice things to say about people you do seem to like.

You'd have to give me a list of where he's "wrong" more often than those other twits. Sam doesn't typically get in to debates about things that he doesn't know anything about. He's very clear when he doesn't. Unlike Trump who's "the best at and knows everything".  lol

When I look at the group of the so called "thinkers" of today, what he says makes a lot of sense to me and he doesn't try to prove that he's something he's not.  In other words, he's not just a character playing a part.

Waste of space? Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man.    Your loss I guess. There is always Tucker Carelson and Alex Jones.

(nice that you choose to group them together)

I grouped them together because they all intentionally mislead people.








Just for some context, this is the "perverted abstraction" to deflect how "wrong he is on covid".   
The entire interview is pretty good. 

[beej]

I like to listen to Sam Harris for the simple fact that he is willing to say out loud what many, who think like him, will not. Even if I don't agree with him, when he talks, it is at least an honest discussion about his thoughts.

[neurosis]

I like to listen to Sam Harris for the simple fact that he is willing to say out loud what many, who think like him, will not. Even if I don't agree with him, when he talks, it is at least an honest discussion about his thoughts.

I listen to him because he brings nuance to the conversation where too many people talk in absolutes. His nuance often gets misinterpreted and so he gets accused of saying or meaning things that he didn't.

[beej]

I listen to him because he brings nuance to the conversation where too many people talk in absolutes. His nuance often gets misinterpreted and so he gets accused of saying or meaning things that he didn't.

yes well don't we all. His views on free will are preposterous and all you have to do is look around with your own eyes to see how wrong he is. But that said, at least I can listen to his theory and understand my own position better.

[neurosis]

yes well don't we all. His views on free will are preposterous and all you have to do is look around with your own eyes to see how wrong he is. But that said, at least I can listen to his theory and understand my own position better.

What makes him wrong?  I don't like what he's saying, and I don't agree with it.  If I had to debate him on it I couldn't do it without making emotional rationalizations as arguments. 

As a neuroscientist, he approaches everything scientifically.  I don't know that he's right or wrong but I don't think that I could prove it either way?

[beej]

What makes him wrong?  I don't like what he's saying, and I don't agree with it.  If I had to debate him on it I couldn't do it without making emotional rationalizations as arguments. 

how do you explain someone who loses weight and keeps it off? How do you explain a person with a cocaine addiction who gets clean? how do you explain a person who is sexually attracted to someone else, has the opportunity to have an affair and chooses not too? In my own life, I owned my own house and I was dating my wife for a year and a half and we waited for marriage to have sex even though that went against every fiber of our being to do so. It was a choice we made despite our natural tendencies toward the opposite.

Those are some questions that I would have for him. I'm sure he would have answers for me, but he would really have to twist and contort in order to explain away to me, especially the last example that I gave.

[Jeff]

I also listen to Ben Shapiro occasionally even though he's become insufferable.

I had to unfollow him on Facebook. It was becoming nothing but religious stuff. While he's a very smart guy, he is a little too......straight and narrow for me for lack of a better term.

[neurosis]

Those are some questions that I would have for him. I'm sure he would have answers for me, but he would really have to twist and contort in order to explain away to me, especially the last example that I gave.

You're a product of your environment.  How you were brought up, genetics, etc.  His point is that your perception of free will is an illusion and that other things drive how you choose how to live your life.

Do people choose to be gay? Can they free will that away?  That's an example that I know you'll tussle with but think about that in a broader sense.

[beej]

You're a product of your environment.  How you were brought up, genetics, etc.  His point is that your perception of free will is an illusion and that other things drive how you choose how to live your life.

We are more than just a product of our environment, and genetic makeup. I had 2 brothers that had children out of wedlock )same genetics, same upbringing) So in my case, I chose a different path. (and like I said, it went against my nature to wait until we were married.)

I'm telling you, in the ministries, I"m involved in, I see change in people's lives that don't make sense unless you factor in free will. I've heard story after story and known many of those stories to be true, of people who decided to change their life from one thing to another. And I've also seen where people who had a good life, chose a path for the worse. Sam Harris could never allow for any of this though, because he had to come to this conclusion to fit his theory of atheism. If his theory of the illusion of free will goes away, his whole world view crumbles. 

Still all of that said, I don't mind listening to his point of view. His views only make my belief in my own views stronger.

[CNCAppsJames]

I always enjoy listening to the atheistic/agnostic viewpoint amd I could not possibly disagree more with a position. Regardless of what they say,  there is more "faith" required to uphold that belief system than they admit to... a point which I find amusing.

Same with socialists, communists and Marxists. They like to leave out the most important element in those belief systems; the human element. Humans always want more. More power. More money. MOAR Control. 

 

[neurosis]

Sam Harris could never allow for any of this though, because he had to come to this conclusion to fit his theory of atheism. If his theory of the illusion of free will goes away, his whole world view crumbles. 

He does though. He gives other examples. There is more to our personal makeup. Say two people with the same parents and genetics, one gets a brain tumor in an area that causes them to become psychotic.  Where was their free will in that or their actions after?

Why do we agree as a society that someone who is a schizophrenic murderer gets a free pass to spend their days in a hospital rather than a prison?

I'm not going to do a good job of speaking for him but I'd love to see you debate him on the subject.    I've listened to a couple. 

[beej]

He does though. He gives other examples. There is more to our personal makeup. Say two people with the same parents and genetics, one gets a brain tumor in an area that causes them to become psychotic.  Where was their free will in that or their actions after?

Ok. Well, sure, a brain tumor could cause some behavior that would be abnormal. I'd agree with that. A tumor on the spine may make a person walk in a bent position where as, without the spine a person would choose to walk upright or bent over. There are medical conditions than affect us. But to say that free will doesn't exist because of those possible conditions just doesn't hold water.

As a kid, I had a hot temper. It didn't go away as a young adult. But after going on a Christian retreat at 18 years old, I made a decision to follow the tenants of Christianity. After, that experience I began to change how I looked at things. At first I rejected several ideas of Christianity, while adopting the most palatable parts of it. And eventually over time I started to change my thought processes to fully embrace what my church teaches. At some point, I decided that my temper was holding me back. I started to analyze that behavior and realized that I had some triggers that caused my temper to flare up. Sam Harris would agree that those triggers caused it. And he may think those triggers prove his point, But he can't explain the fact that I identified those triggers and neutralized them to the point that almost no one who knows me today would ever think that I have a temper.

[neurosis]

Ok. Well, sure, a brain tumor could cause some behavior that would be abnormal.

That's kind of his point? 

But after going on a Christian retreat at 18 years old, I made a decision to follow the tenants of Christianity.

And another one of this points.

All outside (or inside biological) influences. To paraphrase Sam, in those cases, you have as much free will as a puppet that can't see the strings. 

[neurosis]

And again, I'm not saying that I agree with him. I just can't make a good argument. I'll leave that up to someone else.