Jury gets manslaughter case against Michigan school shooter's mother

[neurosis]

This is kind of a scary case.

Has anyone been following this?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/jury-manslaughter-case-michigan-school-shooters-mother-106948188


PONTIAC, Mich. -- A Michigan jury went home Monday after a full day of deliberations in a novel trial against a school shooter's mother who could go to prison if convicted of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four students in 2021.

The jury will return Tuesday for a second day.

[YoDoug]

2 points that show the complete anti-gun bias of this. First, the jury was told they could not infer any idea of how the kid obtained the gun at home or how it was secured or not. Second, the school admin, after having a 12 minute meeting with the kid and his parents to discuss a drawing the student did depicting a shooting, failed to search his backpack. The school admin should be just as guilty of manslaughter by those same standards. It is really scary how much a judge can affect the outcome of a trial by jury. If the judge wants you guilty they have cart blanche power to get the verdict they want.

[Jim at Gentex]

It is really scary how much a judge can affect the outcome of a trial by jury. If the judge wants you guilty they have cart blanche power to get the verdict they want.

Just ask Donald Trump. 

[neurosis]

2 points

In your opinion, do you think that the parents were at all responsible?

I mean, 15 year prison sentence seems a bit harsh. They've already been in for 2?

[YoDoug]

In your opinion, do you think that the parents were at all responsible?

I mean, 15 year prison sentence seems a bit harsh. They've already been in for 2?

I really don't know enough about the case. The parents took the kid shooting at a range. All of the ranges I have ever been to are very strict about gun safety. I don't know how they handled the gun in the home. I do think gunowners have a responsibility to keep their guns stored in a safe and secure manner. I personally would never have a gun in my home that was not either secured in a safe or by trigger lock.

[neurosis]

I really don't know enough about the case.

The kids father bought the gun for him as a present or something like that.

Some time before the shooting the kid made a drawing at school (after the gun was purchased) of some kids being shot presumably at school.  The parents were called in to the school to discuss the drawing. The kid downplayed the drawing as some video game he was designing.  The school told the parents that if they didn't have the kid get some kind of counseling they were going to turn the incident in to social services but the parents didn't want to take him out of school for counseling so the kid was returned to class. That same day the kid started shooting people at school.

This is just my cliff notes of what happened so I'm not sure how accurate it is but this is my understanding so far. To me, it does sound like the school is also responsible although the parents never told anyone at the school that Ethan had access to a firearm.

[gcode]

I do think gunowners have a responsibility to keep their guns stored in a safe and secure manner. I personally would never have a gun in my home that was not either secured in a safe or by trigger lock.

Different times..my dad had a lot of guns.
He taught me how to use them, kept a 38 S&W in a drawer and made sure I knew where it was.

[Jeff]

In your opinion, do you think that the parents were at all responsible?

I mean, 15 year prison sentence seems a bit harsh. They've already been in for 2?

Hard to tell. Was it locked up securely? Or just laying around the house?
A 15 year old kid will get it out of the safe if they are determined enough. And who's to say that if the parents never had guns in the house that the kid would get one by other means and still do what he did?

[neurosis]

Hard to tell. Was it locked up securely? Or just laying around the house?

It sounds like they never made any attempt to secure it but there are also no State laws requiring them to so technically, they didn't break any laws by not securing it.

[RobertELee]

They've already been in for 2?

This is what pisses me off, being punished for something they haven't been convicted of in a case that should be considered questionable. I get when they hold them for the times when they are the actual assailant, however to hold the parents of of the assailant and taking their rights away for 2 years because they may be guilty of manslaughter is ridiculous.

[YoDoug]

Different times..my dad had a lot of guns.
He taught me how to use them, kept a 38 S&W in a drawer and made sure I knew where it was.

We had a lot of guns when I was a kid. I was taught how to safely use them. Some of my fondest childhood memories are the hours of reloading my dad and I did in assembly line fashion. However my dad always kept them locked up. I had other friends that had unsecured guns in their homes. They would take them out all the time when their parents were not home. I can remember being genuinely scared several times at one kids house when the guns came out.

[YoDoug]

It sounds like they never made any attempt to secure it but there are also no State laws requiring them to so technically, they didn't break any laws by not securing it.


 

That's why i have a problem with the manslaughter charge. They did not break any law and their actions were not directly responsible for the deaths. Their son had to make the choice to break the law. A decision by someone else to commit a crime after the fact. Unless they could be proven to have known or suspected the kid was planning to use the gun to commit a crime I don't feel they are guilty of manslaughter.

[Jim at Gentex]

Let's do a little hypothetical mental exercise and say the kid stabbed a bunch of other students with a kitchen knife he took from home instead of shooting them with a gun he took from home.

Would we even be having a conversation about this?
Would anyone in their right mind want to prosecute the parents for allowing Ethan to have access to dangerous weapons, in this case, a kitchen knife?

This just goes to prove how much guns have been vilified in our society.

Ethan made the decision to harm other students, period.
The choice of weapon he used is irrelevant, and his parents should not be held liable in either case.
JM2CFWIW...

[Jeff]

This is what pisses me off, being punished for something they haven't been convicted of

Just like recently with Trevor Bauer, Cy Young winner and highest paid player in the game at one point, some girl made false r*pe accusations against him, the Dodgers put him on leave, then let him go. His only recourse was to play in Japan on a pro league while the case was processing in court.
He lost out on potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in MLB contracts because that gold digger lied.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[neurosis]

Would we even be having a conversation about this?
Would anyone in their right mind want to prosecute the parents for allowing Ethan to have access to dangerous weapons, in this case, a kitchen knife?

That's hard to say. When your kid is drawing pictures of people being shot and it's brought to your attention and you refuse to do anything about it knowing that your kid has access to a gun you just purchased them, I can see where the parent's were at a minimum, negligent. There is more to the story. It sounds like the parents were kinda fucked up but hey, who didn't grow up with shitty parents?