Found out my HOA is caught up in a fraud lawsuit.

[YoDoug]

Welcome to the flaming liberal socialist club. 

What I find kinda silly, is that I haven't seen anyone give an opinion on what the solution should be, only pointed out the problem. You can't even acknowledge the issue without getting labeled.

I honestly don't know what the solutions is. I'm don't like gov regulation because lawmakers just make regs that benefit their donors, IE, big corps. I do feel like the all or nothing mentality needs to go away. Liberals have always been willing to call out big corp greed, but R's will defend it at all costs. That needs to change. The funniest part is the right claims to be the party of the Christian, yet the bible does not defend those greedy business practices, it actually condemns them. I guess the Olsteen type prosperity preachers have fully bent the word of God to support their views on money.

[ghuns]

meanwhile your comrades are reducing housing. Blowing up housing supply is far worse than cornering a few neighborhoods. Right?

Right?

Nobody to live in them. Check out their birth/death rates.

The are in a depopulation spiral that will be hard to recover from.

[neurosis]

I do feel like the all or nothing mentality needs to go away.

This is what drove me to become a "fence sitter" ala Incog. 

Political arguments have become so ridiculous that anything resembling sense has disappeared from discussion. And that is when you can even have a discussion.  Arguments become straw men, useless platitudes, whataboutism for justification, ad hominem, or just straight up insults. Using this discussion as an example, rarely would you see someone on the right willing to even acknowledge that this could be a potential issue for future generations.

We elect people based on their party rather than their principals. Our (the royal our) principals go where the wind blows us. If our party supports this then so do we! The current dems are a perfect example of that.

I don't always agree with you YoDoug, but I do like that you are willing to have the discussions that you know are going to get you some shit.     I like that Beej is willing to get in to the dirt without turning to insults. 



 

[YoDoug]

but I do like that you are willing to have the discussions that you know are going to get you some shit. 

Sometimes I am legitimately wanting to discuss the actual problem and not just the partisan talking point BS. Sometimes I take up the opposition side just because this forum would be so boring, just a right wing circle jerk. Other times I am feeding the troll in me.

[gcode]

The are in a depopulation spiral that will be hard to recover from.

Yes for nearly 50 years China was terrified of overpopulation and had a draconian 1 child per family
rule. Chinese culture has always prized male children over female.
This lead to the abortion of the vast majority of unborn girls.
Now China does not have enough women to maintain the population.
Last I heard, the ratio of male to female of breeding age is about 20 to 1.

[gcode]

Other times I am feeding the troll in me.

trolls aren't vegan... they live under bridges and eat unsuspecting children.
Everyone knows that.

[Del.]

This is what drove me to become a "fence sitter" ala Incog. 

Political arguments have become so ridiculous that anything resembling sense has disappeared from discussion. And that is when you can even have a discussion.  Arguments become straw men, useless platitudes, whataboutism for justification, ad hominem, or just straight up insults. Using this discussion as an example, rarely would you see someone on the right willing to even acknowledge that this could be a potential issue for future generations.

We elect people based on their party rather than their principals. Our (the royal our) principals go where the wind blows us. If our party supports this then so do we! The current dems are a perfect example of that.

I don't always agree with you YoDoug, but I do like that you are willing to have the discussions that you know are going to get you some shit.     I like that Beej is willing to get in to the dirt without turning to insults. 



 

Political arguments are because liberals and conservatives are so far apart on any common ground. Not even close anymore.

[YoDoug]

Political arguments are because liberals and conservatives are so far apart on any common ground. Not even close anymore.

I don't agree. Yes there are issues that we are far apart on, but I think most people are a lot closer on a lot of topics. In polls there is a lot of common ground on immigration/boarder security, pollution/environmental, gov spending, national dent, etc. The problem is they have bought into the party line BS that it is all the other sides fault. Also the all or nothing, no dissent allowed, attitudes. You are not allowed to bring up valid points of opposition or concerns anymore. You must agree or you will be ridiculed, shunned, and more.

[neurosis]

Political arguments are because liberals and conservatives are so far apart on any common ground. Not even close anymore.

Some times I don't believe that either actually stand for what they are supporting right now.  Defending people breaking in to the Capitol Jan 6th?  Puberty blockers for children?  I mean, the two have become so ridiculous that I don't know how anyone can support either.

[beej]

What I find kinda silly, is that I haven't seen anyone give an opinion on what the solution should be, only pointed out the problem. You can't even acknowledge the issue without getting labeled.

The solution is to stop or slow the printing of money.

[Del.]

Some times I don't believe that either actually stand for what they are supporting right now.  Defending people breaking in to the Capitol Jan 6th?  Puberty blockers for children?  I mean, the two have become so ridiculous that I don't know how anyone can support either.

I never thought our universities would call for hatred for Jews either or a Catholic president support abortion or that judges and prosecutors would be so soft on crime. You're naive if you think we have much in common. There is absolutely nothing I agree with on west coast politics.

[neurosis]

There is absolutely nothing I agree with on west coast politics.

I don't agree with most of it either. Some I do.

I also don't agree with forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term when they know that the pregnancy isn't viable and there is a strong chance that the woman would become sterile after - under threat of jail or worse.  Or claim that you want the rights to go to the State and then immediately call for a national ban after. Or make excuses for people like Gaetz, who was basically caught red handed giving money to a known sex trafficer who then venmo'd (like an idiot) money to an under age prostitute. Or claim I am a christian and then support a man who's cheated on his current wife with three different women (that we know of) and is married to someone he cheated on his last wife with. I wont even go in to MTG, but the list goes on.

I still consider myself to be conservative leaning but not on social issues. The current version of the right?  Ugh.

[Del.]

I don't agree with most of it either. Some I do.

I also don't agree with forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term when they know that the pregnancy isn't viable and there is a strong chance that the woman would become sterile after - under threat of jail or worse.  Or claim that you want the rights to go to the State and then immediately call for a national ban after. Or make excuses for people like Gaetz, who was basically caught red handed giving money to a known sex trafficer who then venmo'd (like an idiot) money to an under age prostitute. Or claim I am a christian and then support a man who's cheated on his current wife with three different women (that we know of) and is married to someone he cheated on his last wife with. I wont even go in to MTG, but the list goes on.

I still consider myself to be conservative leaning but not on social issues. The current version of the right?  Ugh.

I agree on MTG. I'm not for a total ban on abortion. I won't judge on why a marriage ends nor a person's alleged faith. 

[beej]

I do feel like the all or nothing mentality needs to go away. Liberals have always been willing to call out big corp greed, but R's will defend it at all costs. That needs to change. The funniest part is the right claims to be the party of the Christian, yet the bible does not defend those greedy business practices, it actually condemns them.

I'm not sure if you are talking about me or not. But there are a couple of things in that post I'd like to respond to.

1) Even though I support the free market philosophy, I do not condone the greedy business practices of large corporations. I find them atrocious and I do my best to avoid doing business with the corporations I despise for such actions, although that is not always possible.

2) There are some aspects of Socialism that I find attractive. But what I do not find attractive is Government Coerced Socialism. For example, in Amish societies, when a family has a high medical bill, the community will pool resources together to help a family in need, pay off a bill. That family feels grateful and helps others when they can. That's beautiful to me. But when a government taxes it's citizens for the same purposes. it tends to create a class of citizens that rely on that help as a way of life. I find myself disgusted by that.

3) One of the hardest things about the Free Market Philosophy is the patience it takes for problems like we are talking about now to work themselves out. The Free Market does work them out. And they get worked out in multiple ways.
  a)Bubbles. The people who are buying homes now at inflated prices are looking like Kings lording it over paupers by
    buying these homes because they can at inflated prices. the pendulum always swings back and soon many of them will
    be the paupers themselves when the market turns.

  b)Wage increases catch up.  We already seen big increases in wages starting to happen. The UPS strike was successful
    for that union. And the UAW strike was successful as well.  When was the last time in the last 30 years that a union   
    was successful against the big 3 auto makers. The UAW contract is now putting pressure on Toyota to raise wages as
    evidence by the Toyota plant here in my hometown being the first ever Toyota plant voting to unionize. Though, like 
    I said before, this takes patience that we sometimes don't have. It's painful waiting for these scenarios to play 
    out.

All of this said, I'm not supporting corporate greed. I despise it. I also don't like most government intervention. I guess if I'm honest, I would consider government intervention a necessary evil that should be used sparingly. One of the best analogies I could use when it comes to things like this is, I would compare the free market to the weather. For the most part it does pretty well. You generally get a good mix of rain and sunshine, warm and cool weather to make things grow. Once in a while, you get considerably more rain than you'd like and you get floods. floods are a problem, but they eventually go away. in a other year you will have drought. droughts are a problem but eventually it rains again and things start to grow. Floods and drought happen. they are painful. But if you are patient they work themselves out. We should not look for Government intervention to make rain during the dry years and stop the rain during floods. It will be costly and futile.

[neurosis]

I won't judge on why a marriage ends nor a person's alleged faith. 

I don't care either, but don't be a hypocrite. Too many people are willing to ram their morals down your throat and then prove that their morals are only important when it's convenient.

I should probably stop talking now. I can feel me digging myself another hole.