Rational discussion about our current state of irrationality.

[neurosis]

I wish everyone could have conversations in this way. 

They touch on some what would be considered triggering topics and do it in a polite rational way. 

I know beej loves Sam Harris.   

[Incogneeto]

I wish everyone could have conversations in this way. 

They touch on some what would be considered triggering topics and do it in a polite rational way. 

I know beej loves Sam Harris.   




ZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzz

I hope you spent 5$ for this.

Do it again I love the fun.

[neurosis]

ZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzz

Well here is a not so friendly discussion if you like those better.  

[mkd]

Sam is the smartest idiot around. Self anointed KING of TDS.
 Ain't no rational convo to be had with that fool.

[neurosis]

Sam is the smartest idiot around. Self anointed KING of TDS.
 Ain't no rational convo to be had with that fool.

He definitely doesn't like Trump.  That's usually enough to get him labeled an idiot by Trumpsters. 

Watching him debate people and realizing during the debate that the person he is debating doesn't understand what he's saying to them is hilarious.

[mkd]

He definitely doesn't like Trump.  That's usually enough to get him labeled an idiot by Trumpsters. 

Watching him debate people and realizing during the debate that the person he is debating doesn't understand what he's saying to them is hilarious.

any idiot (like me) can make stuff complicated. True genius is making stuff simple.
 Unpacking his verbal obfuscation offline, his arguments are just dumb.  Throwing word salad and talki n g s u p e r s l o o o  w w w lends nothing to the content will confound anyone as to wtf he's saying. It's just not impressive.

[neurosis]

It's just not impressive.

So to be clear; A man who chooses his words carefully and conveys his thoughts coherently so he's not misunderstood, agree with him or not, is and idiot and just not impressive, but a man who speaks like a 5 year old and babbles on incoherently mostly about nothing, never goes any deeper in to any subject than "its going to be really really good, the best, you'll see" is?   

It all makes sense now. 

 

[mkd]

It all makes sense now. 

glad I could help.   

[beej]

LOLing at this whole thread

[beej]

Sam Harris, is very articulate, and seems like a very kind man. But his ideas are self defeating.

There is a circulular logic in Fundamentalist Christianity that says, "Once a person believes in Christ confesses his sins and becomes born again, they can not become lost." and when you say, "But I know people who have been born again and walked away from the faith, they say, "Well it must have been a counterfeit faith, because a saved person can't become unsaved."

Sam's reasoning using similar logic in his reasoning on the idea that we do not have free will. As long as you can blame free will on illusion you can just keep the argument circling till you run out of gas.

[neurosis]

Sam's reasoning using similar logic in his reasoning on the idea that we do not have free will. As long as you can blame free will on illusion you can just keep the argument circling till you run out of gas.

You can't prove either theory/faith. I say faith, because atheism requires a certain level of faith too.  When I say you, I mean nobody.

I don't think his ideas are "self defeating". Listening to his theories doesn't change the way I live my life or the way I think about things and that's the beauty of it.  It just gives me something else to think about. I don't even agree with some of it but I couldn't make a good argument for why.

And yes, he's very articulate.

[neurosis]

The reason I posted the video was because of the way he talked to the trans person. His response was very well thought out and disarming to the persons claim that his "words" were harmful to trans people. I don't know if that person walked away with a new perspective. If not, then it's because they weren't willing to listen.

[beej]

You can't prove either theory/faith. I say faith, because atheism requires a certain level of faith too.  When I say you, I mean nobody.

I don't think his ideas are "self defeating". Listening to his theories doesn't change the way I live my life or the way I think about things and that's the beauty of it.  It just gives me something else to think about. I don't even agree with some of it but I couldn't make a good argument for why.

And yes, he's very articulate.

I'm not sure what it even means to say "prove faith". proving theories happens all the time. Pythagorean theory, music theory, theory of gravity, etc.

One theory is that there is a God who exists outside of space and time and that this God created the universe. The other theory is that the universe (and by universe I mostly mean matter) always existed and that everything we see and have come to know as the universe (matter arranged in such a way that there is a structure of solar systems, stars, planets, creatures with logic, etc) is a random occurrence.  There are many subsets of these 2 main theories.

the first theory has been proven to me in 3 ways:
1) personal experience
2) philosophy (Aristotle and Aquinas Unmoved Mover)
3) Fine Tuning observations of the Universe have lead me to know that we are no accident of randomness.

[neurosis]

I'm not sure what it even means to say "prove faith". proving theories happens all the time. Pythagorean theory, music theory, theory of gravity, etc.

Faith is faith. What I mean is, what you have faith in.

the first theory has been proven to me in 3 ways:

Can you prove it to someone who doesn't agree with you?  Not that it's your job to do so.   

[beej]

Faith is faith. What I mean is, what you have faith in.


Can you prove it to someone who doesn't agree with you?  Not that it's your job to do so.   

It depends on the person. I haven't proven it to you, yet.     But when I worked with our Church's youth group, sometimes I would talk to a young person who would hear the arguments for atheism from some teacher or youtube personality and I would present my arguments in favor of God and it gave them what they needed to continue believing. But in fairness, those kids were more, looking for a reason to continue belief than to change their minds.