Tool Presetters - And 3D Capability?

[TSmcam]

Anyone here using tool presetter(s)? and if so, do any of you use presetters that can scan/digitise a tool assembly and output a CAD model?

I'm keen to here of any experiences with this kind of thing.

This came up in discussion today, and is something I have been asked to explore (along with a bunch of other stuff )

[Zoffen]

I've gotten a demo with a zholler unit once where it could spin the tool and scan it and output a dxf/dwg file.

This is a dream of mine... to have all tool assemblies automatically scanned when preset and then either do a profile check against CAD or maybe even scan the profile and then be able to use that automatically with your gcode sim as an extra layer of protection...

[TSmcam]

I've gotten a demo with a zholler unit once where it could spin the tool and scan it and output a dxf/dwg file.

This is a dream of mine... to have all tool assemblies automatically scanned when preset and then either do a profile check against CAD or maybe even scan the profile and then be able to use that automatically with your gcode sim as an extra layer of protection...

Thats our thinking. We have a lot of assembled tools, that are using components which are either obsolete (so no CAD data) or custom. We're looking closer at the whole tool management thing, and it helps that TopSolid has a Zoller interface, as does Vericut

[Zoffen]

TopSolid has a Zoller interface, as does Vericut

The next questions is how good is/does the zoller interface even work?

[TSmcam]

The next questions is how good is/does the zoller interface even work?

That is the first question I will be asking. Among others

[gcode]

That is the first question I will be asking. Among others

The first question you need to ask is a ball park price.
Several years ago I was tasked with gathering info for a tool management system.
We already had a Speroni presetter.
I looked at TDM Systems, Win Tool, Zoller  and a couple of others.
3rd Party Add-ons at Mastercam.com

I found that these were mostly based out of Europe and they have a tiny footprint in the US with mostly remote support.
I gathered the data and requested quotes. I never saw the quotes but the project was cancelled once the numbers
started rolling in. I asked about the prices, but all I even got was "Don't worry about it, we're not doing that."

[TSmcam]

The first question you need to ask is a ball park price.
Several years ago I was tasked with gathering info for a tool management system.
We already had a Speroni presetter.
I looked at TDM Systems, Win Tool, Zoller  and a couple of others.
3rd Party Add-ons at Mastercam.com

I found that these were mostly based out of Europe and they have a tiny footprint in the US with mostly remote support.
I gathered the data and requested quotes. I never saw the quotes but the project was cancelled once the numbers
started rolling in. I asked about the prices, but all I even got was "Don't worry about it, we're not doing that."

Oh, rest assured, the cost is the first question that would be asked.

At my last workplace, we looked at the TDM system, and had a demo. I have to admit, it was pretty impressive. Although from memory, yeah, I recall it was expensive. However, the company did seriously consider it, but for a couple of reasons (that I dont recall) they didnt.

TopSolid has a module called Shopfloor, which manages tools, fixtures, measuring equipment etc. Kind of like Cimco NCbase for equipmemt, but on steroids. It isnt too badly priced. I'm heading to a TopSolid conference in Italy in the mext few months and they have a fully functional Shopfloor set up there, so I will check it out first hand. There is the oportunity to check out the Zoller interface there too. Might even head on to Zoller after that.

[Zoffen]

/Rant on

So yea... I was at a shop in the past... and we bought Zoller TDM and it looks impressive in demo's and in their show room but let me tell you once you give them that phat check you are on your own. Asked for current CAM interface...the newest they had was 3 years old and didn't really work well(mastercam). Hopefully it has gotten alot better. Make sure you get some real world workflow demo's. This is where alot of tool management just falls flat on its face is its UI is just too cumbersome to use effectively because it was written by Software DB people and not people who know stuff about tool management...

//Rant off

[gcode]

once you give them that phat check you are on your own.

yes.. many of the companies I looked at were German
and it looked like the US presence was one guy working out of a PO box in Dallas

[CNCAppsJames]

Any good machinist/setup guy with a comparator can give you better data faster than ANY of those overpriced Euro eccentricities.

The prices I can assure you will be ridiculously eyewatering.

We just made a sale on a MAM72-52V and the customer wanted ALL the bells and whistles. So, we went out and did all the ground work found what he was asking for (presetter, balancer, heat shrink unit, etc... all in in one). After getting the pricing the presetter salesman and I made the executive decision to have the balancer and presetter in one and the heat shrink unit separate. Price difference was about $40k less to have the separate heat shrink. We went with Haimer. Their support has always been beyond stellar for us and our customers. Zoller, Parlec, and.... starts with an S but escapes me... have been nonexistent. This customer will NEED good support at least in the beginning.

[gcode]

Oh, rest assured, the cost is the first question that would be asked.

I took that approach but it was rebuffed with 
" we must asses your needs before we can talk $$$"

newly learned protip... when they answer a request for a ball park quote like that,
call it a day and move on

[TSmcam]

I took that approach but it was rebuffed with 
" we must asses your needs before we can talk $$$"

newly learned protip... when they answer a request for a ball park quote like that,
call it a day and move on

Haha, yeah, like looking at something with no pricetag. One always knows it is eyewatering

[TSmcam]

Any good machinist/setup guy with a comparator can give you better data faster than ANY of those overpriced Euro eccentricities.

The prices I can assure you will be ridiculously eyewatering.

We just made a sale on a MAM72-52V and the customer wanted ALL the bells and whistles. So, we went out and did all the ground work found what he was asking for (presetter, balancer, heat shrink unit, etc... all in in one). After getting the pricing the presetter salesman and I made the executive decision to have the balancer and presetter in one and the heat shrink unit separate. Price difference was about $40k less to have the separate heat shrink. We went with Haimer. Their support has always been beyond stellar for us and our customers. Zoller, Parlec, and.... starts with an S but escapes me... have been nonexistent. This customer will NEED good support at least in the beginning.

I'm going to be interested in seeing how much they can make my eyes water. Well, it wont be my eyes. My jaw will probably just drop LOL

[CNCAppsJames]

Haha, yeah, like looking at something with no pricetag. One always knows it is eyewatering

Eeeeef one hazt to ahhhhsk how much, one cannot afford eeet.

 

[mkd]

I took that approach but it was rebuffed with 
" we must asses your needs before we can talk $$$"

newly learned protip... when they answer a request for a ball park quote like that,
call it a day and move on

They are quite right, as this stuff is very much implementation/application dependent. I'm not sure how much data Zoller can write to the chip, but simple tool life and TLO can be difficult with german control's updates and european OEMs that change stuff and don't go the extra mile.
 If you're gonna have some automated dxf.stp of the tool created, no point in not having that sent to the control in the same automated system. Not sure if the chip is the best or even possible.