libertarian win: Ross Ulbricht

[RobertELee]

There is a 4)  They don't want to waste time on a trial and have already proven to you that they have all the evidence they need to get the conviction.

Don't ask me how I know that. 

I'll bite...


How do you know that?


Ooops, I'm not a very good rule follower 

[neurosis]

I'll bite...


How do you know that?


Ooops, I'm not a very good rule follower 

Lets just say that I know how much Federal attorneys cost, and they aren't cheap. Even if they're incompetent.

And I know how difficult the DOJ can make it on you when you don't want to cooperate.

[CNCAppsJames]

The DOJ ruins people they can't convict for sport. 

Thankfully I cannot say I know this from personal experience, but I have read about enough case files where that exact thing happened.

[Incogneeto]

Lets just say that I know how much Federal attorneys cost, and they aren't cheap. Even if they're incompetent.

And I know how difficult the DOJ can make it on you when you don't want to cooperate.

How bout one that tells you the Sixth amendment doesn't count and Handcuffs your evidence.

You can't show proof of former drug use. Nor Violence. nor medical mental.

And only uses Hearsay evidence.?

It's called "Excited Utterance" Look it up.

Obama passed this.

[neurosis]

Some evidence from the silk road case:

"According to Ulbricht's own words in a 2009 email, Ulbricht originally conceived of Silk Road as "an online storefront that couldn't be traced back to [him] ... where [his] customers could buy [his] products" and pay for them "anonymously and securely." Tr. 991. From 2009 through 2011, Ulbricht worked to get the site up and running, relying on computer programming assistance from others, including his friend Richard Bates. According to one of the journal entries discovered on his laptop, in 2010 Ulbricht began to grow hallucinogenic mushrooms to sell on the site "for cheap to get people interested." Tr. 899. As the site began to garner significant interest in 2011, Ulbricht wrote in his journal that he was "creating a year of prosperity and power beyond what I have ever experienced before. Silk Road is going to become a phenomenon and at least one person will tell me about it, unknowing that I was its creator." Tr. 899-900."

[mkd]

Some evidence from the silk road case:

"According to Ulbricht's own words in a 2009 email, Ulbricht originally conceived of Silk Road as "an online storefront that couldn't be traced back to [him] ... where [his] customers could buy [his] products" and pay for them "anonymously and securely." Tr. 991. From 2009 through 2011, Ulbricht worked to get the site up and running, relying on computer programming assistance from others, including his friend Richard Bates. According to one of the journal entries discovered on his laptop, in 2010 Ulbricht began to grow hallucinogenic mushrooms to sell on the site "for cheap to get people interested." Tr. 899. As the site began to garner significant interest in 2011, Ulbricht wrote in his journal that he was "creating a year of prosperity and power beyond what I have ever experienced before. Silk Road is going to become a phenomenon and at least one person will tell me about it, unknowing that I was its creator." Tr. 899-900."

Such a damning tale I wonder why he didn't get the death penalty. 🤡 Hell sleepy Joe got our guys killed during the Afghanistan withdrawal in the most irresponsible method possible one could argue it was on purpose.
. govern me harder, daddy

[neurosis]

Such a damning tale

It just shows intent. That he didn't create the site to sell flowers and then it was over-run by criminals selling illegal drugs.

[CNCAppsJames]

.gov can show any intent they want and because they are .gov and they only need to say... they don't have to prove jack. 

They get the benefit of the doubt from about 81,000,000 folks.

[neurosis]

.gov can show any intent they want and because they are .gov and they only need to say... they don't have to prove jack.

They get the benefit of the doubt from about 81,000,000 folks.

After reading about this, I don't think it's debatable that he created the site with the intention of it being a marketplace for illegal sales. The only thing debatable is how much time he deserved for doing it and what he was personally responsible for.

The drug aspect of it is a difficult conversation because literally anyone who knew how to access the site could buy those drugs. That means children too. I doubt we would have the same sympathy for a man selling heroine to high school kids?  And even if Ross Ulbricht wasn't the dealer selling heroine to high school kids (analogy) he was the one who made it possible.

I know that most libertarians are 'your body your choice' when it comes to drugs but I would suspect that even if most people on this forum have a liberal opinion of marijuana, they don't with heroine, extasy, fentenal (yea, I know it wasn't around back then, but if it were) prescription narcotics?

"Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, was aware that children could potentially use his platform to buy drugs. This concern was raised by one of his administrators, who forwarded a troubling customer service complaint from a woman whose brother had overdosed on heroin from Silk Road. However, the platform's design and user base were primarily aimed at adults, and there were no specific measures to prevent underage users from accessing the site. The platform's anonymity and lack of age verification made it difficult to control who could access and use it."

Two life sentences seems pretty ridiculous. I'd like to hear the explanation behind that sentence.


https://www.gawkerarchives.com/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imag-30818160

[mkd]

That TL;DR OP video touched on the Judge's rational surmising it was based on the unfounded allegations by the criminally corrupt fed infiltrators of the murder for hire scheme.
 Kinda like the Russian hooker pee dossier

[Jeff]

81,000,000 folks

allegedly

[mkd]

After reading about this, I don't think😁

Hypothetical drivel (mostly the govt case)
If hordes of high schoolers were smart enough and had access to Bitcoin that was just invented a couple years earlier they're probably smart enough no to injest random substances off a sketchy site. And where are the parents and any evidence of a single person being harmed by the site? But there was lots of drug safety info on the silk road website, ref the video.

[neurosis]

That TL;DR OP video touched on the Judge's rational surmising it was based on the unfounded allegations by the criminally corrupt fed infiltrators of the murder for hire scheme.
 Kinda like the Russian hooker pee dossier

I don't feel like I should fall in to a trap of dismissing culpability because of two corrupt federal agents. The video from Reason is as much agenda driven as one that came straight from the feds would be.  I saw the statement from the judge and the statement basically said that just because he was smart and came from privilege, he's no better than your average street corner crack dealer and doesn't deserve any sympathy. Was the judge wrong in that?

The corrupt agents were caught stealing and laundering money, not making up allegations? Or did I miss something there?

[neurosis]

If hordes of high schoolers were smart enough and had access to Bitcoin that was just invented a couple years earlier they're probably smart enough no to invest random substances off a sketchy site.

Hypothetical drivel.

[neurosis]

I'm not sure if you missed this part of my last post?

"Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, was aware that children could potentially use his platform to buy drugs. This concern was raised by one of his administrators, who forwarded a troubling customer service complaint from a woman whose brother had overdosed on heroin from Silk Road."