Plane crash

Dan_AKA_ROY23 · January 30, 2025, 08:34 AM

This is so bad.

Was it accidental? Seems more investigation needed.

Trump speaking about it now. Trump suspicious...

RobertELee · January 30, 2025, 08:36 AM

Quote from: CNCAppsJames on January 30, 2025, 08:22 AMLooking at an aviation site I read often there were a couple of other contributions;
Normal approach had a 15 knot crosswind with gusts to 25 knots, so pilot most likely request the other runway. Approach for that runway puts them in the path of normal military rotorcraft traininng traffic.

At fist glance, ATC is gonna take the hit for this one.

Heard ATC asked pilot if he could divert to runway 33. Maybe runway 1 hadn't fully cleared of other aircraft?

neurosis · January 30, 2025, 11:16 AM

I've seen several reports now that are blaming DEI for the crash

The WSJ just posted a not to flattering headline about Trump making baseless claims?

UGH. Do better America.

CNCAppsJames · January 30, 2025, 11:17 AM

Quote from: RobertELee on January 30, 2025, 08:36 AMHeard ATC asked pilot if he could divert to runway 33. Maybe runway 1 hadn't fully cleared of other aircraft?

RW33 put the plane into the preferred headwind condition from what I read.

CNCAppsJames · January 30, 2025, 11:20 AM

Quote from: neurosis on January 30, 2025, 11:16 AMI've seen several reports now that are blaming DEI for the crash

The WSJ just posted a not to flattering headline about Trump making baseless claims?

UGH. Do better America.

WAY too early to be calling ATC a DEI hire. Mistakes happen.

Look up "runway incursions". Luckily they are caught in time. There's a combination of pilot error and ATC erron for that.

Flying is can be a dangerous business if everyone is not at the top of their game.

SuperHoneyBadger · January 30, 2025, 11:29 AM

Quote from: CNCAppsJames on January 30, 2025, 11:20 AMWAY too early to be calling ATC a DEI hire. Mistakes happen.

I agree. I know it's du-jour, and I am also a detractor of the process, BUT...

ATC is probably one of the most mentally demanding professions around, and I have a hard time seeing how it's possible to shuffle people through the training who aren't actually qualified. It costs the training agency 100's of thousands per applicant by the time they get a license. Maybe at the initial selection something DEI-ish could go on, but candidates would get weeded out pretty quickly. You're judged by your peers and mentors who want the best of the best, I don't see it.

I'd sooner call DEI on the pilots, in all honesty, but I don't think there is any evidence on that front. We shall see, people will be interested in this story, and the investigation will be thorough.

neurosis · January 30, 2025, 11:29 AM

I've been pretty busy at work today so haven't been able to read much about what's going on. I open my browser at lunch and it's off the rails with crazy headlines.

I feel like we could give it a couple of days before we politicize it?

I think I'm going to have to wait until I get home from work to see any news about it.

CNCAppsJames · January 30, 2025, 11:34 AM

Quote from: Jim at Gentex on January 30, 2025, 08:32 AMYup.

Sometimes it just comes down to 'shit happens'.

Pilot error, ATC error, or a little of both.

Sad.

Like just about every other failure in the world, it RARELY comes down to just one thing. Usually it is a cascade of errors. And if any one of the errors in the chain were avoided, catastrophe could have been averted.

Now it's incumbent on the NTSB to figure out exactly what went wrong and see if there's anything that can be done to prevent it from happening in the future.

Safety protocols are written in blood usually.

CNCAppsJames · January 30, 2025, 11:36 AM

Quote from: neurosis on January 30, 2025, 11:29 AMI've been pretty busy at work today so haven't been able to read much about what's going on. I open my browser at lunch and it's off the rails with crazy headlines.

I feel like we could give it a couple of days before we politicize it?

I think I'm going to have to wait until I get home from work to see any news about it.

I heard something a few years back and it rings true at an astonishingly high rate;

"The first report is always wrong."

mowens · January 30, 2025, 11:48 AM

The father of the first officer on the CRJ was a helicopter pilot in the army for 20 years. Here is some of what he said.

"Lilley, who served 20 years as a helicopter pilot in the Army, is familiar with the complexities of such operations.

"I was a helicopter pilot in the Army for 20 years. In the '90s, I used to fly in and out of the Pentagon regularly, and I can tell you if you are flying on the route over the Potomac and wearing night vision goggles, it's going to be very hard to see that plane. If you're not wearing the goggles, then you might have a chance," Lilley told Fox 5 Atlanta.

He said he believes the commercial PSA jet involved in the incident was following proper procedures, but the military helicopter made a tragic error.

"From what I can see, those guys turned right into the jet. I think the PSA jet was doing everything right. The Army pilot made a grave error. It hurts me because those are my brothers, and now my son is dead," Lilley told Fox 5 Atlanta."

Del. · January 30, 2025, 11:55 AM

Why not hold the Blackhawk until jet landed. Why push it.

SuperHoneyBadger · January 30, 2025, 11:56 AM

Quote from: CNCAppsJames on January 30, 2025, 11:34 AMLike just about every other failure in the world, it RARELY comes down to just one thing. Usually it is a cascade of errors. And if any one of the errors in the chain were avoided, catastrophe could have been averted.

That is what I learned from an accident investigator over the years. Just have to wait to see how far along we can put the chain together, NTSB is very competent as far as an agency is concerned. Lots of experience, lots of experts, and they are usually given the space and time required to come up with a complete picture.

Same man also told me never to ride a helicopter: "They don't retire, they crash"

Incogneeto · January 30, 2025, 12:08 PM

Quote from: neurosis on January 30, 2025, 11:16 AMI've seen several reports now that are blaming DEI for the crash

The WSJ just posted a not to flattering headline about Trump making baseless claims?

UGH. Do better America.

LOL!!! NBC added 30 minutes to their "Special Report" where Brian Williams was crying about DEI.

Trump called him out at his Press conference. #butthurt.

RobertELee · January 30, 2025, 12:10 PM

Quote from: Del. on January 30, 2025, 11:55 AMWhy not hold the Blackhawk until jet landed. Why push it.

That's kind of what he was doing with the 'maintain visual separation' request. Unfortunately it looks like the Blackhawk didn't locate the correct plane. I've listened to some ATC broadcasts in the past and normally when they are talking about a specific aircraft or whatever they say something like "do you see that aircraft about 1000ft off to your 2oclock?" To give an actual place in space to look. In this incident it doesn't sound like ATC did that. Not sure if that is a requirement or not however, but it may likely be one of the contributing factors.

Incogneeto · January 30, 2025, 12:13 PM

Quote from: RobertELee on January 30, 2025, 12:10 PMThat's kind of what he was doing with the 'maintain visual separation' request. Unfortunately it looks like the Blackhawk didn't locate the correct plane. I've listened to some ATC broadcasts in the past and normally when they are talking about a specific aircraft or whatever they say something like "do you see that aircraft about 1000ft off to your 2oclock?" To give an actual place in space to look. In this incident it doesn't sound like ATC did that. Not sure if that is a requirement or not however, but it may likely be one of the contributing factors.

When I saw the first Vid it looked like two aircraft coming and going and the chopper to their left.