New machine day!

[YoDoug]

New machine day used to be exciting. Nowadays it just means another robot cell to build. This is our 4th Multus B250, makes 9 Multus machines in total. Should be an easy build as it is a clone of our other cells.

The only unknown is the P500 control. Our U3000 with the P500 control has been a challenge. We have had more downtime in 1.5 years from the new control than some of our older machines have had in 30,000+ hours of operating. In fact it is currently down waiting for a new drive board. Hopefully they have the bugs worked by now. Currently we only have a few people that know how to run the new control, now we will have to train more when this new machine is going in a month.

[Del.]

Damn them tariffs!

[YoDoug]

Damn them tariffs!

We actually ordered this one before Okuma added their tariffs, specifically to avoid them. We knew we would need another lathe by the end of year so we decided to act right away when the whole tariff shenanigans started.

[Del.]

We actually ordered this one before Okuma added their tariffs, specifically to avoid them. We knew we would need another lathe by the end of year so we decided to act right away when the whole tariff shenanigans started.

Reported for destroying my point without advance notice!

[gcode]

I have zero experience with the new P500 controls, but I've been told they have so many
safety features that the machines are nearly inoperable.

Maybe we can get Trump to take a hammer to OSHA when he's done with the EPA. 

[YoDoug]

I have zero experience with the new P500 controls, but I've been told they have so many
safety features that the machines are nearly inoperable.

Maybe we can get Trump to take a hammer to OSHA when he's done with the EPA. 

If you have autodoor just manually taking a tool out of the spindle is like 7 steps. There is a key on the control for handwheel or control mode. To open/close the door you need to be in control mode. Other steps need handwheel mode. You end up flipping the key like 6 times to take a tool out and put it back in.

The other big pain is the ATC recovery now cannot be done with the door open. Inevitably you will get occasional ATC hang ups from chips with the Capto spindle. On the old Multus you could single step through the ATC cycle with the door open to recover. The new control makes you close the door so you can't see if the arm is on the tool or not. I've had to learn the encoder positions of the arm relative to spindle in out points to recover without being able to see what is going on.

They also took a lot of dedicated hard keys away and now they are buried in menus. It takes some time to find everything and if I don't run the machine for a month or two I have trouble remembering where stuff is.

There is also a key for setup/auto mode. With the robot interface it will not let the robot control certain functions of the machine while in setup mode, however it will still let the robot interface run. IE, if you have the the key in setup mode it will allow the robot to open the door but not control the chuck with the door open. It will though let the robot open the door and try to load a piece. It doesn't alarm or anything, just doesn't do anything so the robot put the part in the chuck, assumes the machine clamped, then when the robot retracts it drops the slug on the way covers. We have dropped some decent sized slugs on the covers because someone forgot the key mode. I am guessing I could check the status of the key in a safety check before it tries to load but I have not had time to figure it yet.

[beej]

There is also a key for setup/auto mode. With the robot interface it will not let the robot control certain functions of the machine while in setup mode, however it will still let the robot interface run. IE, if you have the the key in setup mode it will allow the robot to open the door but not control the chuck with the door open. It will though let the robot open the door and try to load a piece. It doesn't alarm or anything, just doesn't do anything so the robot put the part in the chuck, assumes the machine clamped, then when the robot retracts it drops the slug on the way covers. We have dropped some decent sized slugs on the covers because someone forgot the key mode. I am guessing I could check the status of the key in a safety check before it tries to load but I have not had time to figure it yet.

We must the protect the robots! robots have feelings too! 

[beej]

when we first switched to the Genos machines from our older okuma's our set up dropped by 30%. with our latest machine which doesn't have the p500 control but it does have the safety features, it is probably worse than it was before.

We have been complaining to our local dealer. They keep saying they hear us but then they also try to trivialize our complaints as well. And so far nothing has come from it. And when I look for the global safety initiative they are telling me that they are trying to be compliant with, I can't find it.

And when I asked them if China was buying these machines with these saftey features attached, they said China won't buy okuma machines.

[Incogneeto]

when we first switched to the Genos machines from our older okuma's our set up dropped by 30%. with our latest machine which doesn't have the p500 control but it does have the safety features, it is probably worse than it was before.

We have been complaining to our local dealer. They keep saying they hear us but then they also try to trivialize our complaints as well. And so far nothing has come from it. And when I look for the global safety initiative they are telling me that they are trying to be compliant with, I can't find it.

And when I asked them if China was buying these machines with these saftey features attached, they said China won't buy okuma machines.

Single block through 4,000 blocks of code is a Bitch.

[beej]

Single block through 4,000 blocks of code is a Bitch.

  

These p500 controls are the Windows Vista of the Machine tool world. We are not buying anything new from Okuma until there are changes.

[YoDoug]

 

These p500 controls are the Windows Vista of the Machine tool world. We are not buying anything new from Okuma until there are changes.

Luckily for us we are a production shop so we can live with the inconveniences. If we were a job shop I may not be inclined to buy another P500 Okuma.

[CNCAppsJames]

I've got a few friends outside of here that are "Okuma guys"... like in the same vein @YoDoug is an Okuma guy.... they are saying the new control has some significant undocumented features.

 

[mkd]

TCP and CAS work together on the p500 control, so that single fact could be a reason to buy. Handwheel jogging to set a z offset off a 1-2-3 block, while doable, is not optimal with the dead man switch necessity. other than that the CE spec stuff is fine, especially the limit switches on the end of the drawbar stroke. Set it and forget it now, is sweet.
indexing the capto tool with the autodoor closed prior to opening the door and removing feels a little silly, but fine. when you get used to it.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Fanuc is guilty of fucking up a perfectly good control too. We have a couple of late generation HMI's, one on a Robodrill and one on a Matsuura. Both have the screen response time of a first generation android tablet with a virus. Tap the screen, wait. Tap again, wait. Very reminiscent of a early generation Celos. Sure the features are nice, and when they are running you don't have to mess with the screens much, but when you are setting them up you are wishing for the older generation HMI.

The safety features, the blame for all of that shit is not exclusively on the US market. Its a worldwide effort to safety the shit out of them so you cannot use them. What a better way to make a machine safe than to make it inoperable?

[mkd]

Has anyone used the new tool restart function? pretty wild that the control reads the program and presents  the list of tool changes to you for restarting at