Another school shooting.

[Jim at Gentex]

When these laws were written, it was unheard of to have a child bring a gun to school, or anywhere else.  Now, it's so easy to get a gun and the culture around guns have changed so much, that the laws need to be re-written.

With the way current politics are, it's nearly impossible to get anything done.

You weren't around when high schools used to have competitive rifle teams and indoor ranges, and students often had rifles and / or shotguns in their trucks so they could go hunting after school.

Sorry to say, but it is YOUR generation that villified guns and made everyone afraid of them.
My generation viewed them as tools to be used responsibly, but those days are long gone. 

[neurosis]

Sorry to say, but it is YOUR generation that villified guns and made everyone afraid of them.
My generation viewed them as tools to be used responsibly, but those days are long gone.

My generation?  Nobody worried about guns when I was a kid.  There was no reason to be afraid of them.

By the way, I was taken shooting before I hit double digits. I wont pretend that I was brought up around firearms the way some of you guys were.  My dad sold drugs and had a firearm under every couch and chair cushion in the house.    He was also from Wyoming so was an avid hunter.

Aren't there still high-school rifle programs?

[Jeff]

Aren't there still high-school rifle programs?

According to wiki

As of 2018, there are reportedly more than 2,000 high-school rifle programs across the United States.[1] In 2015, 9,245 students in 317 schools across three states participated in the USA High School Clay Target League. In 2018, participation had increased 138% with 21,917 students from 804 teams in 20 states.[2]

[riverhunter]

Aren't there still high-school rifle programs?

Yep,  Local High school has Air rifle and trap.  very good at it too.  one kid won the national in Vegas and I hired him that summer.  he was an excellent employee.

[Jim at Gentex]

My generation?  Nobody worried about guns when I was a kid.  There was no reason to be afraid of them.

By the way, I was taken shooting before I hit double digits. I wont pretend that I was brought up around firearms the way some of you guys were.  My dad sold drugs and had a firearm under every couch and chair cushion in the house.    He was also from Wyoming so was an avid hunter.

Aren't there still high-school rifle programs?

My apologies if I underestimated your age, but you know what I mean.

There is ONE high school I know of that MAY still have a rifle team, but I can't say for sure.

Part of the problem is that most insurance companies won't even think about covering them, regardless of how safe and secure they are.   

[Jim at Gentex]

They banned and confiscated or bought back all semiautomatic rifles

Think about the concept of gov't 'buyback' programs for a minute.

They are going to steal my property, then reimburse me for it with MY OWN TAX MONEY, and call it good. 

Most liberal do-gooders can't even comprehend how wrong that is on its face, but here we are...

[Bucky Cornstarch]

Glorification and easy access, rather than vilification, is the problem.

[neurosis]

My apologies if I underestimated your age, but you know what I mean.

I'm not sure how old you think I am. I'm about the same age as James give or take a year.

I don't know that this has as much to do with the vilification of guns as it does the culture surrounding them. Like you said, guns used to be though of as a tool.  Now, they're though of by punks that have no respect for them as leverage.  I don't know who to blame that on but making it so easy for these turds to get their hands on them is a hugs problem.

[Jim at Gentex]

I'm not sure how old you think I am. I'm about the same age as James give or take a year.

I don't know that this has as much to do with the vilification of guns as it does the culture surrounding them. Like you said, guns used to be though of as a tool.  Now, they're though of by punks that have no respect for them as leverage.  I don't know who to blame that on but making it so easy for these turds to get their hands on them is a hugs problem.

Yes, it is a huge problem, but punishing everyone for the crimes of a few is ridiculous, especially when we are talking about a Constitutionally protected RIGHT, not some mere privilege granted by the state that can be easily revoked.

[neurosis]

Yes, it is a huge problem, but punishing everyone for the crimes of a few is ridiculous, especially when we are talking about a Constitutionally protected RIGHT, not some mere privilege granted by the state that be easily revoked.

I get that, but you'd think that people who value that right would want to figure out a way to solve this problem because eventually, something is going to have to change. At what point is your right to own a firearm more important than a kids (or any innocent person for that matter) life? This is just something we accept as collateral damage.

It's frustrating when the discussion ends at 'what part of do not infringe do you not understand'. If I get shot by an irresponsible gun owner, are my rights being infringed upon? 

Anyway.. this is an awful subject to try to discuss. Not just in here, but anywhere. Punishing innocent gun owners because of irresponsible turds is never going to be a good argument.

[Jim at Gentex]

Punishing innocent gun owners because of irresponsible turds is never going to be a good argument.

On that we fully agree. 

We also need to mention that rather than push for MORE restrictive gun laws, we start by enforcing the ones we already have, and changing the stupid ones like you mentioned earlier that you are stuck with in Seattle.
(5 strikes? Ridiculous.)

There is also the fact that criminals don't give a shit how many gun laws there are because they will only violate them anyway, so again, MORE laws only punish those who actually follow the law.
Criminals still gonna do criminal stuff no matter what.

You are right, it is a complex issue, but there is probably more common ground in the middle of the spectrum than there is at either end. 

[Jon@NOWHERE]

Exactly. 👍

What a law like that CAN do is make it easier to convict an ignorant parent. This dad knew his son was being picked on at school. This was a nice looking kid who seems wouldn't have trouble with girls or fitting in.

Do you guys who own AR style guns let your teenage sons shoot them?

A few years ago I bought 2 AR-15s, one for myself to shoot and one for my middle son(15-16 years old at the time) to shoot.  It was something we would do together, and the only times he shot that AR-15 was when I was with him. 

[Incogneeto]

You are right, it is a complex issue, but there is probably more common ground in the middle of the spectrum than there is at either end. 

You are saying that to Neuro??    

[Incogneeto]

I get that, but you'd think that people who value that right would want to figure out a way to solve this problem because eventually, something is going to have to change. At what point is your right to own a firearm more important than a kids (or any innocent person for that matter) life? This is just something we accept as collateral damage.

It's frustrating when the discussion ends at 'what part of do not infringe do you not understand'. If I get shot by an irresponsible gun owner, are my rights being infringed upon? 

Anyway.. this is an awful subject to try to discuss. Not just in here, but anywhere. Punishing innocent gun owners because of irresponsible turds is never going to be a good argument.

and here we are with only one side releasing "Facts".

We are a loooong way from Knowing what happened.

This is day one so judgement from any of us is a Loooong way away.

Right now Honor the dead and let them be Buried.

"Innocent until Proven Guilty " Is just as strong as "Shall Not be Infringed"

If you want to change either of those two rights.

Good Luck.

[mowens]

When I was in junior high and high school, forced bussing was being implemented. There were lots of fights; tear gas and blood in the hallways. To my knowledge, there were no guns or knives. The most dangerous weapons I saw were belts with those big 70s style buckles which, btw, were pretty formidable by themselves.

I hate to think what kind of bloodshed we would have seen just 20 years later.