Covid Vaccine

[Tim Johnson]

[quote="Tim Johnson" post_id=10439 time=1619799350 user_id=68]

Aren't all the antibodies "Real", just the method of causing your body to create the antibodies differs.  Whether by the real virus or faking your body into creating an antibody based on a viral pattern...?

I would think they would be different. Antibodies created to kill dead viruses should be different than what would be needed to kill live ones. Would the better question be "Are they testing antibodies from each of the vaccines along with antibodies that occurred with previously infected people?"

The mRNA vaccines don't deliver dead viruses or any virus. Totally different than traditional vaccines, which inject weakened or genetically altered viruses. mRNA's teach our immune system how to recognize the spike proteins as a threat. With COVID, our healthy cells are deceived thinking the spike proteins are friendly.
[/quote]

So is that the reason it's being reported that the vaccines need to be an every year occurrence? Does the COVID protein (proteins?) mutate?

[Tim Johnson]

I don't know about that. Killing dead viruses is much tougher than killing live viruses.  

Wooden spikes worked a many hundred years ago to kill the dead. Maybe we could add some angry Transylvanian blood cells into the vaccine mix.  :w00t:

[Here's Johnny!]

This is scary.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-05-01/indian-scientists-flag-virus-mutations-that-could-evade-immune-response">https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... e-response">https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-05-01/indian-scientists-flag-virus-mutations-that-could-evade-immune-response

[byte]

[quote="Tim Johnson" post_id=10477 time=1619873703 user_id=68]

[quote="Tim Johnson" post_id=10439 time=1619799350 user_id=68]


I would think they would be different. Antibodies created to kill dead viruses should be different than what would be needed to kill live ones. Would the better question be "Are they testing antibodies from each of the vaccines along with antibodies that occurred with previously infected people?"

The mRNA vaccines don't deliver dead viruses or any virus. Totally different than traditional vaccines, which inject weakened or genetically altered viruses. mRNA's teach our immune system how to recognize the spike proteins as a threat. With COVID, our healthy cells are deceived thinking the spike proteins are friendly.
[/quote]

So is that the reason it's being reported that the vaccines need to be an every year occurrence? Does the COVID protein (proteins?) mutate?
[/quote]

""The genius of the influenza virus lies in its ability to alter itself. The virus uses RNA rather than DNA as its genetic material. RNA viruses make frequent mistakes while copying themselves. Their high mutation rate means that RNA viruses evolve far more rapidly than DNA viruses, because every successive generation is a little different from the previous one. The flu virus's surface proteins—hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N)—are also changeable. These proteins have a role in making it possible for a virus to invade and hijack cells. Hemagglutinin permits virus particles to gain access to the cell's interior, and neuraminidase helps newly produced copies of the virus break free of the cell in quest of other cells to invade.

There are three types of influenza viruses: A, B, and C. Only influenza A viruses are further classified by subtype on the basis of the H and N surface proteins. Influenza A subtypes and B viruses are further classified by strains. Among influenza A viruses, there are 16 known subtypes of hemagglutinin and 9 of neuraminidase. Many different combinations of these H and N proteins are possible, each representing a different subtype.

According to the CDC, the subtypes of influenza that are currently circulating among people worldwide include A H1N1, A H3N2, and B strains. Usually only one subtype predominates in a given flu season. Epidemics break out every year because of slight genetic mutations in a virus subtype's surface proteins that result in a new strain of the virus—a process known as antigenic drift. New combination vaccines are formulated annually to protect against the three circulating strains of seasonal flu that experts predict will cause the most illness in the coming season.

Sometimes the virus's surface proteins undergo a radical change—a process known as antigenic shift—resulting in an altogether new influenza subtype against which most humans have no immunity. The result can be a pandemic. The extent and severity of a pandemic depend on the specific characteristics of the virus. While rare, pandemics sweep the world like wildfire. In addition to the recent H1N1 pandemic, three major pandemics broke out in the 20th century: an H1N1 in 1918 (the misnamed "Spanish" flu), an H2N2 in 1957 (the "Asian" flu), and an H3N2 in 1968 (the "Hong Kong" flu). Of these pandemics, the 1918–1919 virus was the most fearsome, killing 50 million to 100 million people worldwide (or between 0.5 and 1 percent of the global population at that time). Many of those deaths were due to the effects of pneumococcal pneumonia, a secondary complication of flu for which no antibiotics existed in 1918. Diagnosis and treatment of this complication continue to be key to survival and recovery for flu patients.
"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209708/">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209708/

[byte]

In the case of regular flu mutations, mass deaths of millions are to be expected.
In the case of sustained attack by genetically modified viruses,

 I would expect the immune system to aggressively evolve to defend itself.

Just like the viruses will mutate so will we, natural selection will determine the winner, I don't view covid as the end times,
I think the circumstances around the outbreak need to be investigated to fix the situation.

[TylerBeer]

[quote="Tim Johnson" post_id=10439 time=1619799350 user_id=68]

[quote="Tim Johnson" post_id=10417 time=1619791568 user_id=68]
Which antibodies? The manufactured ones or the real ones?

Aren't all the antibodies "Real", just the method of causing your body to create the antibodies differs.  Whether by the real virus or faking your body into creating an antibody based on a viral pattern...?
[/quote]

I would think they would be different. Antibodies created to kill dead viruses should be different than what would be needed to kill live ones. Would the better question be "Are they testing antibodies from each of the vaccines along with antibodies that occurred with previously infected people?"
[/quote]

Where are you getting this "science" from?

[Here's Johnny!]

The mortality rate in India is quite stable at just over 1%.

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-ri ... ZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS

[YoDoug]

I linked to this article in the Nutrition discussion thread on Friday because it details how the gut biome and immune system are interconnected and vary based on diet. However it also has good info about how our body's immune system works and how it remembers previous pathogens it has encountered.

https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-microbiota-influences-our-immune-system">https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-mic ... une-system">https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-microbiota-influences-our-immune-system

[Here's Johnny!]

I linked to this article in the Nutrition discussion thread on Friday because it details how the gut biome and immune system are interconnected and vary based on diet. However it also has good info about how our body's immune system works and how it remembers previous pathogens it has encountered.

https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-microbiota-influences-our-immune-system">https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-mic ... une-system">https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-microbiota-influences-our-immune-system

Most of the new diabetes treatments focus on the gut as well.

[YoDoug]

I linked to this article in the Nutrition discussion thread on Friday because it details how the gut biome and immune system are interconnected and vary based on diet. However it also has good info about how our body's immune system works and how it remembers previous pathogens it has encountered.

https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-microbiota-influences-our-immune-system">https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-mic ... une-system">https://neurohacker.com/how-the-gut-microbiota-influences-our-immune-system

Most of the new diabetes treatments focus on the gut as well.

For nearly 20 years I suffered recurring heartburn. I was stuck using Omeprazole or other meds on a regular basis. I tried to get off it because I was worried about the long term effects. Even once I switched my diet to more plant based, I still struggled to get off of it. Then a year or so ago I got my gut bacteria tested. One of the bacteria I was deficient in is directly related stomach acid production. I took targeted probiotics for several months, then began to ween myself off of the omeprazole. It has been over 6 months of not having to take anything for heartburn. I have also stopped worrying about counting calories. As long as I eat plant based I eat as much as I want and I don't gain any weight. I attribute that to fixing my gut biome as much as diet helping.

[Dan_AKA_ROY23]

The mortality rate in India is quite stable at just over 1%.

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-ri ... ZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS

Don't trust the India data. The numbers in crematoriums and grave-sites (Hindu's cremate their dead, Muslims bury them) suggests the fatalities are much higher. India government doesn't want to look bad, considering they were touting how well they were handling the pandemic compared to other nations. If a person dies from COVID but wasn't officially tested positive (wasn't tested at all), they don't count it as a COVID related death.

Lack of testing a big problem there. Plus, vaccine rollout struggling. To date, vaccines there are not free like here and most western nations. They cost about the average month's wage and many simply cannot afford it. It's either get the vaccine or don't eat.

[Here's Johnny!]

The mortality rate in India is quite stable at just over 1%.

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-ri ... ZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS

Don't trust the India data. The numbers in crematoriums and grave-sites (Hindu's cremate their dead, Muslims bury them) suggests the fatalities are much higher. India government doesn't want to look bad, considering they were touting how well they were handling the pandemic compared to other nations. If a person dies from COVID but wasn't officially tested positive (wasn't tested at all), they don't count it as a COVID related death.

Lack of testing a big problem there. Plus, vaccine rollout struggling. To date, vaccines there are not free like here and most western nations. They cost about the average month's wage and many simply cannot afford it. It's either get the vaccine or don't eat.

They (India), manufacture the most vaccine in the world. They were doing well with testing etc and then they seemed to go in reverse.

I was watching the news Saturday night and they said they are still attending mass religious events un-masked so I lost a lot of sympathy right there.

The WHO now is stating vaccines will not end the pandemic, more surveillance, testing and restrictions will be required....

[Here's Johnny!]

Double post!

[YoDoug]

The mortality rate in India is quite stable at just over 1%.

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-ri ... ZL~IND~AUS">https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid?country=CAN~USA~GBR~ESP~ISR~NZL~IND~AUS

Don't trust the India data. The numbers in crematoriums and grave-sites (Hindu's cremate their dead, Muslims bury them) suggests the fatalities are much higher. India government doesn't want to look bad, considering they were touting how well they were handling the pandemic compared to other nations. If a person dies from COVID but wasn't officially tested positive (wasn't tested at all), they don't count it as a COVID related death.

Lack of testing a big problem there. Plus, vaccine rollout struggling. To date, vaccines there are not free like here and most western nations. They cost about the average month's wage and many simply cannot afford it. It's either get the vaccine or don't eat.

If the recorded data shows a 1% fatality rate of positive tested, then you can't say it is worse because of lack of testing. It may be worse, it may the same, or it may be less. If they could test every case or even every person they may find a much larger segment of the population with medium/mild cases or even asymptomatic cases.

[Dan_AKA_ROY23]

They (India), manufacture the most vaccine in the world. <<< (JFord quote)

But they aren't free like here. Millions simply can't afford it.