Haas Trunnion Post question

[gcode]

I'm trying to work up a post and Vericut machine for a Haas VF6/HT210 trunnion combo.
It's for a satellite facility.

I don't have access to the machine and as far as I know, it's not even set up yet.

I've purchased a Postability  post and Machine Sim.. with TCP/DWO and tilted tool plane  support
Machine Sim runs perfectly and I'm getting exactly the results' I'd expect while sitting at my PC

My associate has built a Vericut machine using a sample machine from the VC library.

The problem I'm having is the labels and rotary direction.
His VC machine is using A for the tilting axis and B for the rotary axis.
Direction of rotation is also different.

The Postability post/machine sim is tilting A , rotating C

Normally I'd say Postability is right but..

My Okuma 5X HMC trunnion is an A/B machine

and the Generic Haas VF-TR_Series 5X Mill post available from Mastercam's Tech Exchange is tilting  A/ rotating B.

I'm sure the Hass VF6 can be configured either way, but I would really like to follow industry convention.

It would suck to try and run this project on a different Haas trunnion machine and discover the post and NC files

won't run on other Haas trunnion machines

[Here's Johnny!]

I have seen it both ways on Haas machines. It bothers me as it should be standardized.

[crazy^millman]

The ones we post for are B0. A0. What does the Postability Post for NC output? Don't look at what Machinesim for Axis call outs. Sometimes you have to lie to Machinesim in the Kinematics. Do a Simple Block with 5 faces and you can test it really quick to be sure.

[civiceg]

The machine is a NGC machine so technically you can name rotaries A/B to match how CHC haas machines handeled naming. And program it old school without dwo/tcpc, only time i recommend this is having a bunch of machines with the older chc, and only having one newer ngc machine. Besides that stick to the industry standards and use dwo/tcpc and life is easy.

But to use tcpc/dwo you have follow a around x, b around y, c around z. Tcpc/dwo was only available on CHC UMC750s. Once the NGC came out it expanded to all mills. Two throw another curve, on a NGC you have two different sets of settings to define COR.

[gcode]

Thanks for the replies
It looks like the Postability post is right
This Haas video  covers it starting at the 4 minute mark

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The shop I'm doing this for has other machines running trunnions,
They are all older machines running 3+2 work. They are configured as Tilting A , Rotating B
and were programmed with Catia and Gibbscam.

The machine I'm working with has a NGC and it looks like it needs to be setup A/C for DWO and TCP to function.

I wonder why  Haas went with A B configurations, on older controls?
I can see that causing a lot of trouble down the road.

[mowens]

I thought it was standard.A rotates around X, B rotates around Y and C rotates around Z. Not sure how that relates to your machine. That's  how it is on the machines I've programmed.

[civiceg]

It is, but how haas handled it on older Classic Haas Controls it was always A was the 4th and B was the 5th regardless of orientation. Now on Next Gen controls you follow normal MTB convention, unless you want all of your machines to match with CHC machines and not use dwo/tcpc.

[gcode]

Thanks to everyone who responded
This is good information and corresponds with what I'm seeing at the shop.
The Haas VF/TR post on the Mastercam Tech exchange supports a trunnion on an old classic control
I ordered a VF/TR post for a NGC from Postability and that is what they delivered.

The shop I'm doing this for has half dozen Haas mills, but only a two have NGC capable controls.
Neither had the DWO/TCP option enabled.
I convinced then to buy DWO/TCP for the machine I'm programming and I'll be going  tilt A/ rotating C
with this machine.
I suspect an NGC is versatile enough that it can handle A/B or A/C programs
if they need to run some of their old 3+2 files on it

[JParis]

I suspect an NGC is versatile enough that it can handle A/B or A/C programs
if they need to run some of their old 3+2 files on it

Not in my limited experience...

The macros for it that run during the setup of the trunion only handle the AC configuration.

Haas cheated the ISO configuration for many years but on the NGC controls, they finally fall in line with the industry standards

[Matthew Hajicek]

Yup, on my 2015 machine it's A=tilt B=spin no matter how you orient it.  Rotation directions can be flipped.

[civiceg]

You can not use tcpc/dwo on a ngc unless it matches normal MTB axis assignments.

However if you have legacy A/B trunnion programs you can define an A/C NGC to use A/B. However you can't use dwo/tcpc. Which really isn't a problem as DWO/TCPC was not available on classic haas controls besides the 1st gen umc750.

That being said, just because you can doesn't mean it makes practical sense. Like I said earlier, the only time I recommend it is when you have a bunch of older Haas 5 axis mills and one NGC 5 axis mill(especially if dwo/tcpc was not purchased).


For most Its easier to define the post to use A/C for a NGC then to change it on the control,  for all of those legacy A/B programs.

[gcode]

you have a bunch of older Haas 5 axis mills and one NGC 5 axis mill

we've got 2 NGC mills, but only I could only talk the bosses into DWO/TCP for one of them.

[CNCAppsJames]

you have a bunch of older Haas 5 axis mills and one NGC 5 axis mill

we've got 2 NGC mills, but only I could only talk the bosses into DWO/TCP for one of them.

   :huh:

[civiceg]

If it were I, I would use the NGC mill with DWO/TCPC to do all the small quantity jobs. That way setup and programming time is lower and most likely the company will buy the option for the 2nd NGC machine once they see the benefit.

[gcode]

This work is all for a small shop my employer has purchased.
The owner retired and sold it. The guy who bought it got tired of bleeding and
dumped it. My employer bought it at fire sale prices.
The owner did all the programming with Gibbscam and they bought Catia programs from an outside guy.
They have not been able to find a Gibbscam driver so they no longer have a programmer.
They've got 6 or seven Haas mills of various sizes and ages.
Only 2 have the NGC's and neither had the DWO/TCP option.

The project I'm working on is a half dozen Ti hogouts (A 3rd hand LTA for F35 flaperons)
They were programmed offsite in 2009 by a Caita guy. The CAM files are not available
and the NC files are awful. It's all 2d/3d,  1" roughers crunching for days, lots of kellering
of features that should be swarfed and days of benching bringing the parts into spec.

They've had the LTA since 2009 and have been losing their ass on it since day one.
One file, an POS1 vice op has Z0 4.2" up in the sky off the top of the rough forging.
I asked the guy running it why and he didn't know.
I told him that was really dangerous and he said "yeah, we crash a lot of tools"

I don't think my bosses knows what  they've got themselves into.
It's going to be a challenge to get this mess straightened out.