GOP Senators spied on by Biden Administration

[Bucky Cornstarch]

Hard to "force" as you put it your way into a place where they opened the door fkr you and did not attempt to prevent entry.

#NotOneChargeOfInsurrection

You should care. Accuracy in language it paramount.

No matter how emphatically you pound those hashtags into your post, you are still wrong.

The amount of reality you Trumptards have to brush aside to support your hair-brained theories is absolutely astounding.

[jstell]

Careful, might strain/sprain something with all the mental gymnastics.

[neurosis]

I feel like there are some people who go out of their way to avoid footage of Jan 6th that may not support the Tucker Carlson "it was just a bunch of people touring the capitol" narrative.


This must have been FBI agents? 




More people being escorted in to the building with doors wide open?

[jstell]

What's the difference between insurrection and seditious conspiracy?

I think we've covered this.  An insurrection is when more people die.

If there had been, more people would have died

Seditious conspiracy is when the leaders of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers get sentenced to 22 and 18 years, respectively, and then they see the orange light of freedom, having their sentences commuted to time served after a couple years.

from the google:
Oath Keepers: In 2022 and 2023, juries convicted leaders and members of this anti-government militia of seditious conspiracy for their role in the attack. Founder Stewart Rhodes received an 18-year sentence, and other members were also convicted or pleaded guilty.
Proud Boys: In 2023, a jury convicted former Proud Boys chairman Enrique Tarrio and three of his lieutenants of seditious conspiracy. Tarrio received a record 22-year sentence. A fifth member was acquitted of seditious conspiracy but convicted of other serious felonies.

[Del.]

No matter how emphatically you pound those hashtags into your post, you are still wrong.

The amount of reality you Trumptards have to brush aside to support your hair-brained theories is absolutely astounding.

I think we have reached a starting point for debate. 😂

[CNCAppsJames]

I had to ask because I feel like people are arguing over semantics.

There were seditious conspiracy charges. They knew they had enough evidence to convict. The difference is the plotting/planning and the ability to carry it out?

I just quote the U.S.C.

At the end of the day, the prosecution did not believe they could meet the high burden of proof required to get a conviction on the Insurrection charge. That is the no BS, no Google degree, no bro science answer.

 Conspiracy convictions OTOH are relatively easy to get. If you talk to someone about something or write something down, it's pretty much gonna assure a Conspiracy conviction.

No Google degree required for that assessment, just a single functioning brain cell.... which is a tall order for a few in here apparently.  

 

[neurosis]

Conspiracy convictions OTOH are relatively easy to get. If you talk to someone about something or write something down, it's pretty much gonna assure a Conspiracy conviction.

Sure, especially when they are discussing committing a crime, and/or when there is evidence of specific people tied to two right wing extremist groups conspiring on social media (private and public) to incite a riot in order to stop the certification of an election and then video evidence of them actually doing it.

I don't like conspiracy charges either - I have first-hand experience with them - it allows the prosecutor to hold all co-conspirators responsible for acts that all others charged with the conspiracy committed. So people with lesser culpability can be leveraged to testify against the more responsible in exchange for lighter sentences. Anyone with "just a single functioning brain cell" would understand why they do that.

It doesn't mean that no crimes were committed. They had plenty of evidence to convict those responsible, and in this case, only 18 were charged with Seditious Conspiracy when an estimated, 200 - 300 members tied to the two groups were seen on video, marching toward the Capitol. Their goal was pretty f-n clear.

Rhodes began to plan for a rebellion just two days after the 2020 presidential election, when he told Oath Keepers members to reject Biden's victory. "We aren't getting through this without a civil war," he said on an encrypted Signal chat. Over the following weeks, Rhodes called on other Oath Keepers in open letters and private chats to use violence to stop Biden from assuming office. In one instance, he said that if Biden were to assume the presidency, "We will have to do a bloody, massively bloody revolution against them."

How is that for toning down the rhetoric?

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/seditious-conspiracy-what-make-latest-oath-keepers-indictment

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

https://www.justsecurity.org/103956/proud-boys-threat-assessment/  <-- includes video

No Google degree required for that assessment, just a single functioning brain cell.... which is a tall order for a few in here apparently. 

Tall order indeed.

I don't care for the way a lot of people approach this conversation. No matter which side of the argument you're on, it was a dark day in our Countries history. When was the last time the Capitol building of the US was taken over by protesters/rioters?

It does seem like, from some, there is an unreasonable willingness to deny evidence, including video, but then no conspiracy that there is no proof or evidence of, is off the table. 

Not to make assumptions, but I suppose you think that all of the pardons were justified? Compensation fund?

[Bucky Cornstarch]

I just quote the U.S.C.

At the end of the day, the prosecution did not believe they could meet the high burden of proof required to get a conviction on the Insurrection charge. That is the no BS, no Google degree, no bro science answer.

 Conspiracy convictions OTOH are relatively easy to get. If you talk to someone about something or write something down, it's pretty much gonna assure a Conspiracy conviction.

No Google degree required for that assessment, just a single functioning brain cell.... which is a tall order for a few in here apparently. 

Okay Nutboy, you win. If it will help keep that tiny little nut brain of yours from rattling around in its cranium shell, you can have your semantics victory. Since there were no insurerrection charges filed, there was no insurrection. Happy?

Heck, we'll take it one step farther: The J6 patriots had all gathered for a picnic and a prayer meeting, which just so happened to be on the same day an election was to be ratified. They only decided, after much discussion, to enter the Capitol to congratulate the winners, and to pledge their support for the new administration. Things didn't start getting ugly until members of both Antifa and the FBI started throwing rocks and vandalizing the property, which the J6 patriots were unable to stop, despite their best efforts.

Does that sound about right?

[Newbeeee™]

you Trumptards

TLDR the thread but just seen the BuckTard call out TrumpTard

[CNCAppsJames]

Sure, especially when they are discussing committing a crime, and/or when there is evidence of specific people tied to two right wing extremist groups conspiring on social media (private and public) to incite a riot in order to stop the certification of an election and then video evidence of them actually doing it.

I don't like conspiracy charges either - I have first-hand experience with them - it allows the prosecutor to hold all co-conspirators responsible for acts that all others charged with the conspiracy committed. So people with lesser culpability can be leveraged to testify against the more responsible in exchange for lighter sentences. Anyone with "just a single functioning brain cell" would understand why they do that.

It doesn't mean that no crimes were committed. They had plenty of evidence to convict those responsible, and in this case, only 18 were charged with Seditious Conspiracy when an estimated, 200 - 300 members tied to the two groups were seen on video, marching toward the Capitol. Their goal was pretty f-n clear.

How is that for toning down the rhetoric?

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/seditious-conspiracy-what-make-latest-oath-keepers-indictment

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

https://www.justsecurity.org/103956/proud-boys-threat-assessment/  <-- includes video

Tall order indeed.

I don't care for the way a lot of people approach this conversation. No matter which side of the argument you're on, it was a dark day in our Countries history. When was the last time the Capitol building of the US was taken over by protesters/rioters?

It does seem like, from some, there is an unreasonable willingness to deny evidence, including video, but then no conspiracy that there is no proof or evidence of, is off the table. 

Not to make assumptions, but I suppose you think that all of the pardons were justified? Compensation fund?

Lots there... guess I'll start from the top; 
Thankfully I do not have personal experience with that catch all "conspiracy" charge. In "Three Felonies a Day" by Harvey Silverglate I read all about numerous individuals of notoriety that made that charge what it is today. Personally, I think the lion's share of the time it is the weenie's way out. The state's case is so weak on the substance of the crime, and to justify their pitiful existance and to pump up their conviction rate they slap that garbage on. Not saying true conspiracy does not occur, because it is real, just not to the percentage those charges get hung on someone. Your defense is only as strong as your most compromised friend.  

"Toning down the rhetoric". Yeah. Not gonna happen. When the sitting Speaker of the House calls your side "Enemies of the State".... there will be no toning down of rhetoric. That's an unpardonable sin in my eyes. Those are't just words to people that love this country with every fiber of their being. There's just no walking that back.

Never once have I said "no crimes were committed on J6". Never even once. To say that, or believe that would be a ludicrous claim. As you stated "video evidence".

My only claim that I will stand on is this was not "Insurrection". No charges were ever filed for the crime of insurrection for even a single person. Not even one charge. I don't like what they did. Those that entered the Capitol and and damaged OUR property, disrupted official government business, etc... should have been charged. 100%. I do not recall saying anything ever to the contrary. 

I can't name all the people who received pardons. I can probably only name like two. Should ALL of them received pardons? No. The two I can think of, I was not in agreement with their pardons. 

"Compensation Fund".... I'm not even sure what that is or means. 

 

[neurosis]

Never once have I said "no crimes were committed on J6". Never even once. To say that, or believe that would be a ludicrous claim. As you stated "video evidence".

Your position on this isn't quite what I had assumed. Thanks for clearing it up.  I wasn't sure with the

"Hard to "force" as you put it your way into a place where they opened the door fkr you and did not attempt to prevent entry"

"Compensation Fund".... I'm not even sure what that is or means. 

Trump said that he was considering a compensation fund for the Jan. 6 rioters. "They were patriots who were treated very unfairly". He could just be trolling? You never know with Trump.

[Bucky Cornstarch]

TLDR the thread but just seen the BuckTard call out TrumpTard

Your opinion means nothing because you have no real skin in the game.

[beej]

Your opinion means nothing because you have no real skin in the game.

that was nationalist adjacent!

[Newbeeee™]

Your opinion means nothing because you have no real skin in the game.

TBF, I'm prolly more gun-tootin Murrican than you....

[Bucky Cornstarch]

TBF, I'm prolly more gun-tootin Murrican than you....

I'm tootin something, that's for sure.

BTW I find it hilarious that some (mostly Nutcons) try and claim to be more 'merican than others.