California voters ban bacon

[YoDoug]

Most of the studies are in the way of subsidized feed. They are not direct to the farmer, but in reduced feed costs

I don't believe that is true. I raise a few beef. I know guys who raise a LOT of beef. and I know guys who raise dairy.  There are no subsidies that I am aware of. We buy bulk feed that is ground and mixed and local elevators. And I know that they are not getting money from the government for it.  So where do these subsidies get into the mix?

There is a link in my post you quoted. A quick google search will find all kinds of info on annual subsidies to AG. It's in the billions of dollars every year.  I would guess you don't see the subsidies or get them because Big food corps don't want you as competition.

[beej]

Most of the studies are in the way of subsidized feed. They are not direct to the farmer, but in reduced feed costs

I don't believe that is true. I raise a few beef. I know guys who raise a LOT of beef. and I know guys who raise dairy.  There are no subsidies that I am aware of. We buy bulk feed that is ground and mixed and local elevators. And I know that they are not getting money from the government for it.  So where do these subsidies get into the mix?

There is a link in my post you quoted. A quick google search will find all kinds of info on annual subsidies to AG. It's in the billions of dollars every year.  I would guess you don't see the subsidies or get them because Big food corps don't want you as competition.

I read the article. I just don't believe it.

First, if they are subsidizing grain farmers that is actually making grain more expensive, that is the opposite of subsidizing feed for beef and dairy. That increases feed prices.

Second, the subsidies that they bring up are hardly subsidies. It's crop insurance.  Farmers have to pay for that insurance.

Third, the article describes big corporations going to farmers and convincing them to raise beans and corn for feed. I'm in the heart of the midwest. Nobody had convinced anybody to quit planting tomatoes and start planting corn and soybeans here. generation after generation has grown up planting corn and soybeans, back to the days of German, Irish immigration.  Originally farmers planted this for their own livestock, and eventually grew enough to sell to other farmers or elevators.

this is my family story and the history of every farmer that I know. I don't know who wrote that article but it might as well have been the ladies from the View.  it's just not accurate.

[YoDoug]

I don't believe that is true. I raise a few beef. I know guys who raise a LOT of beef. and I know guys who raise dairy.  There are no subsidies that I am aware of. We buy bulk feed that is ground and mixed and local elevators. And I know that they are not getting money from the government for it.  So where do these subsidies get into the mix?

There is a link in my post you quoted. A quick google search will find all kinds of info on annual subsidies to AG. It's in the billions of dollars every year.  I would guess you don't see the subsidies or get them because Big food corps don't want you as competition.

I read the article. I just don't believe it.

First, if they are subsidizing grain farmers that is actually making grain more expensive, that is the opposite of subsidizing feed for beef and dairy. That increases feed prices.

Second, the subsidies that they bring up are hardly subsidies. It's crop insurance.  Farmers have to pay for that insurance.

Third, the article describes big corporations going to farmers and convincing them to raise beans and corn for feed. I'm in the heart of the midwest. Nobody had convinced anybody to quit planting tomatoes and start planting corn and soybeans here. generation after generation has grown up planting corn and soybeans, back to the days of German, Irish immigration.  Originally farmers planted this for their own livestock, and eventually grew enough to sell to other farmers or elevators.

this is my family story and the history of every farmer that I know. I don't know who wrote that article but it might as well have been the ladies from the View.  it's just not accurate.

I could post a dozen or more links that analyze the 2018 farm bill, which was signed by Trump, that show billions going to support crops for CAFO's. Most estimates say almost 80% of that money goes to the top 10% of big food corps. You can choose to believe it or not, the truth is in the bill.

[Incogneeto]

I don't know who wrote that article but it might as well have been the ladies from the View.  it's just not accurate.

Dayumm !!!

That is like an MMA swing kick to the Groin.

[marshal]

Most of the studies are in the way of subsidized feed. They are not direct to the farmer, but in reduced feed costs

I don't believe that is true. I raise a few beef. I know guys who raise a LOT of beef. and I know guys who raise dairy.  There are no subsidies that I am aware of. We buy bulk feed that is ground and mixed and local elevators. And I know that they are not getting money from the government for it.  So where do these subsidies get into the mix?

You might want to call your county farm service agency.  There's definitely been money available to small farmers, especially over the last year.  The stimulus bills had money for every single animal on your farm, you just had to apply.  Each cow was worth between $7 and $63/head depending on size and purpose.  Those particular funds have run out I believe, but there's likely other things available.  I don't know for sure if we get any "subsidies" for anything else, but we're pretty small so it wouldn't add up to much anyway.

We rarely buy feed, so I'm not sure about the prices at the elevator.  We store a set amount of our own corn at the elevator and they mix it and bring it to us when we need it.  Obviously we're not getting our own corn back, but they don't charge us for the corn, just the fees for storage, grinding/mixing, and delivery.

[pmartin]

I think that economies of scale are a larger part of the reason that small scale farms are closing. My dad had a profitable(barely) dairy with just 30 milkers and we had about six other dairies within about 20 miles of us. Those operations are long gone. A small dairy operation now has several hundred cows. The big ones out west dwarf that number. Another factor is price. I cannot attest to beef operations because I never had anything to do with that but the bulk price for milk is roughly the same as it was in the early 80's. You can't say that about feed and you really can't say that about farm equipment.

[beej]

You might want to call your county farm service agency.  There's definitely been money available to small farmers, especially over the last year.  The stimulus bills had money for every single animal on your farm, you just had to apply.  Each cow was worth between $7 and $63/head depending on size and purpose.  Those particular funds have run out I believe, but there's likely other things available.  I don't know for sure if we get any "subsidies" for anything else, but we're pretty small so it wouldn't add up to much anyway.

We rarely buy feed, so I'm not sure about the prices at the elevator.  We store a set amount of our own corn at the elevator and they mix it and bring it to us when we need it.  Obviously we're not getting our own corn back, but they don't charge us for the corn, just the fees for storage, grinding/mixing, and delivery.

ok.  So the stimulus money is a little different than what we were talking about, though. In that case we are ALL subsidized. There was money going every direction.  And to be fair, prior to that, there was some aid that Trump handed out to help farmers who were hurting because of the trade war with China.

But I have yet to hear about actual subsidies going to CAFO's, or money just handed out for free from the farm bill. What are these subsidies? Are they in the form of tax breaks for investing in technology and new equipment? because if that's what we are talking about manufacturing is also subsidized.  The money that farms get from the government is in the form of disaster relief, through insurance which they purchase.  Maybe I'm wrong and there is government money floating around just waiting for me to grab it. I've been wrong before.

[YoDoug]

Link1 - excellent summary of subsidies to big ag, including references for data

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/subsidies#_edn1">https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/ag ... dies#_edn1">https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/subsidies#_edn1

Link 2 - first reference from the link above. Tracks all subsidies and what they were for for 25 years. You can click on a state and see what subsidies, how much, and even what counties by year.

https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&statename=UnitedStates">https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00 ... itedStates">https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&statename=UnitedStates

For example, The biggest of subsidies in IA for the last 25 have been for corn and soy. Those subsidies include crop insurance, market loss payments, direct payments, etc. All of this federal money going to corn and soy producers keeps the prices artificially low. A lot of product is for feed for animals. A lot of it is for corn syrup sweeteners used in a lot of processed foods. Big food corps spend millions lobbying the gov to get billions in subsidies to artificially keep the cost of meat, sugary junk food, and dairy artificially low.

[ghuns]

The leftists, and Doug , don't want you to eat ANY meat.

The leftists will use environmental regulations to make it impossible to produce that meat in this country. Just as they did with industries like chip making and chemical manufacturing.

The big players will take their production to countries with lesser environmental regulations than we have right now. The environmental damage will be greater than if they'd just left well enough alone. Plus we will suffer shortages, supply chain issues, and be at the mercy of hostile .govs.

Great plan.

[neurosis]

The leftists, and Doug

[YoDoug]

The leftists, and Doug , don't want you to eat ANY meat.

The leftists will use environmental regulations to make it impossible to produce that meat in this country. Just as they did with industries like chip making and chemical manufacturing.

The big players will take their production to countries with lesser environmental regulations than we have right now. The environmental damage will be greater than if they'd just left well enough alone. Plus we will suffer shortages, supply chain issues, and be at the mercy of hostile .govs.

Great plan.

LOL, don't include me with those libtards!

I personally don't think we should be eating meat, for both health and ethical reasons. However I'm believe in a free markets. What I would really like is three things. All subsidies for ag and farming gone. A true free market. If ground beef ends up costing $15-$20/lb so be it. Two is to end the big corp lobbying and influence at the FDA/USDA. The agencies tasked with looking out for the future of America and it's people have been bought and sold to corporate greed. The third is tiered health insurance options based on physical health. The leading causes of death and the biggest expenses to our healthcare system are mostly avoidable with minor lifestyle and diet changes. If people want to life crappy lifestyles and eat poor diets until they are obese and riddled with the chronic diseases from that choice, ok with me. I just think I should be able to go out on a free market for health insurance and after I prove my health warrants it buy from an insurance pool for healthy people at a lower cost.

[rdshear]

If US meat prices skyrocketed, the industry would move to Mexico and the price would drop.  Heck, the Safeway local to me already sells beef printed "Imported from Mexico" right on the label.  It is considerably less than the beef at other local grocers, but I haven't had the nerve to buy any...  Just makes me nervous.

[YoDoug]

If US meat prices skyrocketed, the industry would move to Mexico and the price would drop.  Heck, the Safeway local to me already sells beef printed "Imported from Mexico" right on the label.  It is considerably less than the beef at other local grocers, but I haven't had the nerve to buy any...  Just makes me nervous.

The US imports about 3.5 billion lbs of beef a year. Grocery store meat has to label it's country of origin. It's the restaurant supply chain that does not have to label. When you go out for a burger, unless the restaurant uses local suppliers, you are probably getting imported beef.

[rdshear]

Likely true, but if the US were to price itself out of the market you'd probably see a big increase in imported beef.

[Shazam/TPP]

if memory serves, didn't China buy large amounts of pig farms the last few years? Cali is be played and China will make large amounts of $$$$

https://revealnews.org/article/how-china-purchased-a-prime-cut-of-americas-pork-industry/">//https://revealnews.org/article/how-china-purchased-a-prime-cut-of-americas-pork-industry/