Roe V Wade is overturned

[neurosis]

The occupations and education of the mob doesn't determine the man's rights to due process.

Well I'll leave it at this.  If you're a politician running on a life begins at conception abortion ban policy, good luck moving forward in this country.

I was mostly being a smart ass to MKD (sorry mkd) but this *is* a decision that affects the lives of people who you'll never have to suffer the consequences for. It's easy to claim moral superiority, Dems do it all the time, when the decisions that you're making for others aren't decisions that you have to deal with the outcome.  Sure, we can tell anecdotal stories of this case or that case, but were talking millions here. If the people pushing this agenda were willing to take the burden of all of these children I'd probably give them a slow clap, but they're not. Once their born they're just not your problem. 

I'll say it again, I'm glad that I don't have a uterus and have to make this decision for myself or suffer the consequences of someone making the decision for me.

[neurosis]

you certainly haven't made me mad. I enjoy the discussion.

Beej, I enjoy having conversations with you because even when you disagree, you don't turn the conversation in to an angry rant or start insulting people. I've never met you, but you come across as a man with great integrity.

[neurosis]

Am I allowed to call you a man?  I'm not sure anymore?  Pronouns? 

[Jeff]

Am I allowed to call you a man?  I'm not sure anymore?  Pronouns? 

Did you just assume their gender?

[neurosis]

But do they?  That's actually never been tried at the political level...I don't know if the polls show with accuracy or not...

I only have polls to go by, but according to the pew research center, they do.  I don't know how accurate they are. I assume we'll find out in the mid terms. This should have been a red sweep based on inflation and gas prices. I'm not so sure now.

[JParis]

This should have been a red sweep based on inflation and gas prices. I'm not so sure now.

"Usually" it's about the economy...while this IS a hot button issue and it will move some, I'm not sure how much the "middle" will give in on that....they're hurtin'

[neurosis]

"Usually" it's about the economy...while this IS a hot button issue and it will move some, I'm not sure how much the "middle" will give in on that....they're hurtin'

They may not now, but once the economy recovers, we all have short memories.  This particular issue is going to be hot button for years to come. This won't be forgotten any time soon.

Living in a State run exclusively by Democrats, I don't want to see that happen to the Country.   

[beej]

If the people pushing this agenda were willing to take the burden of all of these children I'd probably give them a slow clap, but they're not. Once their born they're just not your problem.

a lot of people who support abortion make that statement. Pro-life people are not actually pro-life, they are pro-birth.

it's not true. In my local town our Catholic Church has something called the St Vincent DePaul Society. they help poor and needy people with house payments, medical bills, utility bills and they run a food pantry. This is a small town of about 10,000 people and they get $120,000 in donations every year. From who? from liberals? No, it's from the pro-life people who attend that church.  Just this week the president of St Vincent DePaul is working with builder to try and find affordable housing for low income mothers.

A friend of mine in O'fallon Illinois, started a home for single expectant mothers, to help the ladies who didn't needed help but decided not to have an abortion. He funded the whole thing on his own. (He owns a roofing company). Several pro-life people were inspired by this and started to help him. Their group has now kicked in money and purchased an entire hotel. the provide baby sitting while the women go to work, they have started an educational curriculum catered to specific careers that lend themselves to mothers with children. His ministry is now recieving $200,000 a year in donations with no government help, just donations from people who are pro-life.

Catholic charities gets Millions in donations and they are one of the most efficient charities in the country in helping minorities and people in need. 

Some friends of mine started a ministry of donating diapers to single mothers. People started going to stores buying diapers and dropping them off at their house. after a few years their garage was getting too full to store them. They have since built a 2400 square foot shed. people now buy them through Amazon subscription service and keep them stocked up and they distribute them to ministries in St Louis. All of these donations come from Pro-life people who want to make a difference. I could go on and on with this post. Pro-life people are very generous and very caring. but a lot of them don't trust the government to do it, without extreme waste.

[neurosis]

Pro-life people are very generous and very caring. but a lot of them don't trust the government to do it, without extreme waste.

I think that's great, but that's not enough to solve the problem. If you drive through Seattle, in some areas, you can see homeless mothers with their children living in tents or out of cars. 

Donations aren't going to solve the problem *if* it becomes a problem.

All of this is just speculation so it feels a little chicken little? Millions of mothers who didn't want their children could be a lot less of an issue than we think?   

[Smit]

Millions of mothers who didn't want their children could be a lot less of an issue than we think?   

The women who don't get abortions who want them are going to be the women with the fewest resources. People of means will travel. Women without the means to travel will get dangerous abortions of give birth to babies they don't want.

The abortion laws are going to put a heavy burden on those who have the least. Are we going to help them after forcing them to give birth? Assisted child care, education for both the parent and the child, help paying rent, health care, etc?

Or are we just going to congratulate ourselves for saving a fetus and call it a day?

[beej]

I think that's great, but that's not enough to solve the problem. If you drive through Seattle, in some areas, you can see homeless mothers with their children living in tents or out of cars. 

Donations aren't going to solve the problem *if* it becomes a problem.

All of this is just speculation so it feels a little chicken little? Millions of mothers who didn't want their children could be a lot less of an issue than we think? 

Now this is going to sound rude, but it is true. Pro-slavery people made that same argument back in the day. they used to say that nobody was going to take care of the black people, most of whom, couldn't read or write. those were legit concerns but it was also true that the people of the south wanted to keep black people uneducated so that they could keep things as they were. If it sounds like I am lumping you in with the confederacy, I apologize. But sometimes you have to do what is right and deal with the repercussions of it when it comes.

but here is something else to think about. why is there so much homelessness, in a state where there is so much desire for social justice? California has 30% of all homeless people living there. some say it's because of a conducive climate. But what, then about Washington? My gut feeling is that left wing policies actually cause homelessness, rather than preventing it. I think abortion discourages 2 parent families rather than helping single mothers.

[beej]

The women who don't get abortions who want them are going to be the women with the fewest resources. People of means will travel. Women without the means to travel will get dangerous abortions of give birth to babies they don't want.

The abortion laws are going to put a heavy burden on those who have the least. Are we going to help them after forcing them to give birth? Assisted child care, education for both the parent and the child, help paying rent, health care, etc?

Or are we just going to congratulate ourselves for saving a fetus and call it a day?

see post#127

[Smit]

see post#127

I did see that. You seem to think highly of pro life people, which is fine. I will state the obvious in that I'm sure many of those donations come from pro choice people too.

But as Neuro says, it's not going to be enough. Free diapers and formula is helpful but child care so a parent can get an education is more important in the long run. Making sure the child has a better shot at a quality life by providing them a good environment to grow and learn is more important in the long run. The same government that makes abortion illegal, even in case of rape, incest, genetic disorders, etc should step up.

So I expect I'll see lots of bills in red states to help achieve those goals.

[beej]

I did see that. You seem to think highly of pro life people, which is fine. I will state the obvious in that I'm sure many of those donations come from pro choice people too.

But as Neuro says, it's not going to be enough. Free diapers and formula is helpful but child care so a parent can get an education is more important in the long run. Making sure the child has a better shot at a quality life by providing them a good environment to grow and learn is more important in the long run. The same government that makes abortion illegal, even in case of rape, incest, genetic disorders, etc should step up.

So I expect I'll see lots of bills in red states to help achieve those goals.

Just in the past month Missouri passed this supplemental bill for 2022:

Jefferson City � Today, Governor Mike Parson signed the Fiscal Year (FY) 2022 supplemental budget bill, HB 3014, that was passed by the General Assembly this morning. The bill allows for current operations of state government to continue through FY 2022.

"We are happy to sign the supplemental budget bill into law today," Governor Parson said. "This bill not only gives our dedicated state team members a long overdue pay increase, but also appropriates critical funding to our K-12 schools and child care system. We thank the General Assembly for working to get this important piece of legislation passed and to my desk."

HB 3014 totals over $4.6 billion, including $401.5 million in general revenue, $4.1 billion in federal funds, and $45.3 million in other funds. The supplemental budget bill includes funding for several high priority areas:

    A statewide pay plan for state team members, including a 5.5 percent cost of living adjustment
    $1.9 billion for distribution to local public school districts
    Nearly $100 million for distribution to non-public schools
    $444 million for child care services
    $219 million for school food programs
    Funding for MO HealthNet, including funding to ensure eligibility re-determinations are done in a timely manner

[beej]

I did see that. You seem to think highly of pro life people, which is fine. I will state the obvious in that I'm sure many of those donations come from pro choice people too.

I can't deny that I think highly of pro-life people. I'm sorry that you don't, we should go fishing sometime and maybe I can change your mind.

I suppose that there were some pro-choice people that donated but in my area there are not very many pro-choice people around to donate, and a lot of the donations come from people within the Catholic Church and some local protestant churches.  Also a lot of the vocal pro-choice people that I know, think that personal donations are useless and that government programs are the answer.  So they tend to not bother giving to a charity that is pro-life oriented and especially if they are not on board with the LBTQ movement.