Drilling a .12 hole 4.15 deep in 15-5 RC42

[Brian]

Been out of the full time programming gig for 17 years... and it shows when I do turn-keys.

Man it feels like it takes me forever to program a part anymore. In reality it's probably between 30-50% longer.   

But it would come back quickly if you were doing it all day again, I bet....and I bet that the best part of this is not having to do it all day anymore!

[CNCAppsJames]

I program just enough to maintain competency.

I've kicked around the idea of taking a beginning Mastercam class to learn new methods. Seems like it would be really beneficial to me. 

[Brian]

I program just enough to maintain competency.

I've kicked around the idea of taking a beginning Mastercam class to learn new methods. Seems like it would be really beneficial to me.

I've puzzled over stuff like this! It seems to me that the harder part of what we do is probably the general problem-solving stuff (related to machining generally-how to approach a job....fixturing, inspection, how to appropriately optimize something whether it's a one-off non-repeat job, or a long running repeat job, etc.), not the particulars of which CAM (CAD) s/w you know how to use and where all of the new icons are! Am I off my rocker here?

It just seems that it would be far easier for someone like you (James) to get up to speed on a new MC interface, than it would be to get a relative rookie up to speed on all of this other stuff mentioned above?

Thoughts?

[Newbeeee™]

I've puzzled over stuff like this! It seems to me that the harder part of what we do is probably the general problem-solving stuff (related to machining generally-how to approach a job....fixturing, inspection, how to appropriately optimize something whether it's a one-off non-repeat job, or a long running repeat job, etc.), not the particulars of which CAM (CAD) s/w you know how to use and where all of the new icons are! Am I off my rocker here?

It just seems that it would be far easier for someone like you (James) to get up to speed on a new MC interface, than it would be to get a relative rookie up to speed on all of this other stuff mentioned above?

Thoughts?

Me too.
It's all about methodology and process IMHO... but you then have to have the right machine to make it work!

[neurosis]

Am I off my rocker here?

lol.. No, you're spot on. 

[CNCAppsJames]

I seem to recall when I was teaching Mastercam back in the V8/V9 era that teaching the students "how" to program was far more difficult than teaching what the buttons do. 

SO many variables... workholding, tooling, material, datums, tolerances, etc, etc., etc... ad infinitum. Extremely hard to teach that.  

When we do turn-keys we always hand over ALL the data. We have a hand-off meeting where we go over the processes, why a particular tool was selected over another, why we held it the way we did, etc... we always get asked why did you do it that way. I'm always at a loss for an explanation that makes sense. I can't explain exactly what goes on in my head during the iterative process and why it goes on... it just does. after-all, according to one of my high school teachers I'm not supposed to amount to a "hill of shit". I should not even be doing what I do.  

 

 

[CNCAppsJames]

If I had the teaching gig to to over again, I would STRESS the "tool" aspect of CAM.  It's a Starrett, it's a Mitutoyo, it's a Brown and Sharpe, it's a Dell, it'sca Boxx, itxsca Snap-On, etc... learn HOW to process a part correctly and the buttons will come as needed.

[neurosis]

can't explain exactly what goes on in my head during the iterative process and why it goes on... it just does.

We've had a lot of problems with people who come out of trade schools over the years because they're taught to do things in a very specific way.  When you've been in the trade for a long time, talented people, like you (not ego stroking), are able to see a job and visualize the process from start to finish due to experience. It's hard to compensate for lack of experience.

[Newbeeee™]

If I had the teaching gig to to over again, I would STRESS the "tool" aspect of CAM.  It's a Starrett, it's a Mitutoyo, it's a Brown and Sharpe, it's a Dell, it'sca Boxx, itxsca Snap-On, etc... learn HOW to process a part correctly and the buttons will come as needed.

c AIDED manufacture

[CNCAppsJames]

It's hard to compensate for lack of experience.

That is a frequent conversation point in my job believe it or not.

Owners are frustrated, programmers are frustrated, operators are frustrated, etc... Experience costs money. More important than that, it costs TIME. Few have the patience it takes to gain any serious amount of expertise in sometjing anymore. We have two SOLID generations of ADD people that have zero patience for "the process". Doesn't matter what the "thing" is. They just want the answer and fuck the process.

[neurosis]

That is a frequent conversation point in my job believe it or not.

We had a kid who worked here a few years ago who was super smart and a very hard worker. His goal was to land a job as a programmer.  I told the kid to pay attention to everything. See how jobs were set up. Look at a process from start to finish and apply the knowledge to parts you come across in the future.

He was super impatient and demanded to be a programmer or he was going to quit. 

The shop owner put him on a lathe job and told him, this is your job.  Print, process, start to finish.  He ended up painting himself in to a corner because he didn't think the job through and ended up scrapping the entire job.  He quit shortly after and blamed everyone but himself for his mistakes.

I remember him making a comment about half way through the job "how do people make money doing this".  lol.  I told him, by being willing to listen to people who've been doing this shit for a while. It doesn't matter how smart you think you are. 

It probably sounds like I'm shit talking the kid but I'd like to have him back with a better attitude.  haha.  He was the prime example of someone getting in their own way. He was super smart though.  lol

[gcode]

Yea, we're all getting old.  Some times I have to worry that by Monday afternoon I'll forget what happened Monday morning

fixed that up for you.. 

[Zoffen]

Experience costs money

"You think a Professional is Expensive...Try an Amateur.....

[neurosis]

Ok, finally got to test this out today.

First two holes were smooth as silk.

The rep flew in all the way from Michigan. They hadn't tried a 30XD drill that small in RC40 15-5. We did some haggling on the speeds and feeds a bit before running.  He had hoped that we were doing this in 3 stages (1.5x -> 8x -> 30x) but after running it, didn't think it was necessary. We'll know for sure after a few more parts.

We ended up going with Schunk holders and the tool run out was .0003 at the end of the tool.

Bring on the 40XD!    

[Aaron]

If I had the teaching gig to to over again, I would STRESS the "tool" aspect of CAM.  It's a Starrett, it's a Mitutoyo, it's a Brown and Sharpe, it's a Dell, it'sca Boxx, itxsca Snap-On, etc... learn HOW to process a part correctly and the buttons will come as needed.

When I teach the intro classes, I have to do a lot of "these buttons are here" kinda thing.   When I do trainings for people who are actually using the software to make real parts, I focus on the algorithms driving the toolpaths.  I figure, if you know what the surfacing algorithms are doing behind the scenes, you can figure out how to mold them to your needs.   And it's not always obvious, especially in multiaxis and especially when you get frustrated and just start clicking buttons!